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Old 10-16-2012, 09:07 AM
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Need opinions on code p1273 and p1293

Went to Ford today to have them run a diagnostic. First the symptoms I'm having. Truck doesn't want to start when temp drops below 40. Like its running on 4 or 5 cylinders. when it warms up or if i plug it in it's fine. already replaced glow plugs uvch and gaskets. So I took it to Ford they give me code p1293 High side open, bank 1 (right) and code P1273 Injector circuit high to low side open cylinder #3. Ford Mechanic says I need an IDM, valve cover gaskets, UVCH, EGR tube, and EGR sensor. What do you guys think?
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:31 AM
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Idm

Ok so I borrowed a IDM from a friend same year but his is remanufactured and is a 110 version. I installed it and truck ran like it was on 4 or 5 cylinders again. I just drove it there and it was running fine. Put My IDM back in it and its fine. Very confused now. Is there a certain way to install a new IDM? Or is the 110 version making the real problem worse?
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:44 PM
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E...G...R... tube???? Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................next.

Different IDM but same problems? Not the IDM (if you're sneaky give your friend back the 100v IDM from your truck and keep the 110v ) (Start on the right side as the Ford "diagnostic" was seeing trouble codes from that side. I'm also assuming that the internal work you already did is tight and routed away from the moving parts)


First, do you have a infrared temp gun? If so while idling shoot each side of the exhaust as close to the head as you can get to each cylinder. Seeing a cold or hot cylinder will greatly speed up your diagnosing time.

Second, using the attached P.O.S. wiring schematic, remove the connectors at the heads and at the IDM. The Orange and Pink/Yellow wires _shouldn't_ be your issue as these are shared with the rest of the right or left injector banks but with each wire in turn put a meter (set to Ohms scale) on both ends and read the resistance. You shouldn't see more then .2 Ohm but at the very least they should all be the same resistance.




With the engine running/idling climb on top of the motor. Starting on the right side by the wiring connectors on the head move the wiring harness up/down/left/right. Nothing happened (runs better/worse) move two inches down the harness (closer to the IDM) and do it again. You are chasing a short in your system like this. Ford actually calls this the Ford Wiggle Test (yep, it's in the Ford manual). If there is a short/open in the wiring you'll know when the symptom gets better/worse where you are wiggling the harness. If the truck has had a fuel leak in the past and it wasn't thoroughly cleaned up the diesel fuel slowly eats away the wires shielding and shorts it to the next one. Most likely in the valley close to the fuel system. Be careful as the motor is hot.

Find anything?
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:38 AM
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Big Fuel is a Genius

That makes sense. When its cold and the glow plugs stay on longer to warm up the cylinders it causes the wiring harness to get hot and causing the short in the system. Then when I put the 110 IDM on my truck it just caused the short to jump from the extra voltage. My guess is the #3 cylinder. I will check it today and get back with you. Genius!! Thanks again
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFuel View Post
E...G...R... tube???? Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................next.

Different IDM but same problems? Not the IDM (if you're sneaky give your friend back the 100v IDM from your truck and keep the 110v ) (Start on the right side as the Ford "diagnostic" was seeing trouble codes from that side. I'm also assuming that the internal work you already did is tight and routed away from the moving parts)


First, do you have a infrared temp gun? If so while idling shoot each side of the exhaust as close to the head as you can get to each cylinder. Seeing a cold or hot cylinder will greatly speed up your diagnosing time.

Second, using the attached P.O.S. wiring schematic, remove the connectors at the heads and at the IDM. The Orange and Pink/Yellow wires _shouldn't_ be your issue as these are shared with the rest of the right or left injector banks but with each wire in turn put a meter (set to Ohms scale) on both ends and read the resistance. You shouldn't see more then .2 Ohm but at the very least they should all be the same resistance.




With the engine running/idling climb on top of the motor. Starting on the right side by the wiring connectors on the head move the wiring harness up/down/left/right. Nothing happened (runs better/worse) move two inches down the harness (closer to the IDM) and do it again. You are chasing a short in your system like this. Ford actually calls this the Ford Wiggle Test (yep, it's in the Ford manual). If there is a short/open in the wiring you'll know when the symptom gets better/worse where you are wiggling the harness. If the truck has had a fuel leak in the past and it wasn't thoroughly cleaned up the diesel fuel slowly eats away the wires shielding and shorts it to the next one. Most likely in the valley close to the fuel system. Be careful as the motor is hot.

Find anything?
Bigfuel, any chance you were/are a Ford tech? Only Ford techs would know the "wiggle test". Good call.

I would suspect a wiring issue based on the codes as well. It's been too long since I was able to open a book and can't remember the names of the sensors but it seems to me there was one that would give it a hard start or early run issue until warmed up like you're discussing that I replaced a time or two. But sorry, I can't remember now. I don't know about the EGR tube as it's been a while again.

As for all the things that they're saying need replaced well, it "technically" is possibly but the likelihood of needing ALL of those things replaced at once to resolve this issue is rare. Sure, in the grand scheme of things, one issue very well could have caused a chain reaction into many other issues. I suppose it's possible something could have shorted out in the injector (causing the injector to go bad) which also caused a short in the wiring harness/valve cover gasket (causing the valve cover gasket to go bad) which could have caused an IDM and EGR sensor to go bad as well. But man, that's reaching.

I'm gonna go with bad wiring and/or valve cover gasket/harness somewhere along the line.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:58 AM
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Yep, worked at Claremont Toyota/Ford for a couple years and then went back to heavy industry. Climbing around in tiny engine bays wasn't my thing. When you have to put your head into a big CAT engine to see the bottom of a cylinder or weld several 48v 4000A batteries together to get an electric tractor out of a hole it dug itself, thats living. Only sucked when it rained as I was an on-site monkey.

No EGRs on our trucks. On the valve cover when you pull the connectors look inside. If the pins are dark/burned or full of oil then replace. The burned pin will also tell you what injector you are looking at to have problems. I'm with Eldridge that the dealership was reaching for a conclusion and a paycheck.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:41 AM
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Wiring

Ok found some issues in the wiring like 2 wires melted together. What is the bare wire that wraps around the rest of the wires? Is it suppose to be bare? Is it important?
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:00 PM
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The bare wire is a shielding wire. Things that pulse, i.e. these wires and the electro magnets on top of the injectors, put off a magnetic wave. At certain pulse frequencies these magnetic waves will actually imply a voltage to surrounding things. The bare wire shields these implied voltages by accepting the voltage and directing them away from the rest of the wires so you don't have hijacking signals going through your system. Same reason your stereo antenna wire and the other parts of that system have these bare wires so that you don't hear the static caused by the engine.

Do what you have to do to fix those melted wires. Shielding wire be damned

Last edited by BigFuel; 10-17-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:56 PM
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Thanks BigFuel

Well I replaced a couple of wires used some good heat shrink connectors a whole roll of tape and some new wire loom. Seems to be good as new. Tested it by putting the 110 IDM back in it and fired right up. By the way the 110 IDM will stay in. My friends truck blew the trans and he decided he's going to sell it as is or part it out not sure yet. So I will keep my old one behind the seat. The real test will be in the morning but I'm confident that I got it. Thanks again BigFuel. You saved me $2300 the Ford dealership wanted to charge me for parts and Labor. A little surprising they didn't do a little more investigating before trying to sell me the most expensive thing it could have been. Why they thought my EGR tube was bad is still confusing.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:07 PM
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Your welcome, just trying to help. Depending on the age of the tech that did the "Diagnostic" check most trade schools now only "train" to whip out a handheld and let a computer tell them what to do. Newer cars are pretty good at diagnosing themselves but older vehicles are pretty dumb. Anything older than 2000 best to just roll up your sleeves and start digging.

On your friends truck, take his PCM too!
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