I bought a '95 SC 5spd PSD last summer (last running August 2010) with a blown engine. It's been a very long journey but I ultimately found a running replacement engine, replaced all of the seals/gaskets/o-rings/valve springs/oil filter/fuel filter/air filter, and just installed it over the weekend.
Now, when I try to start the engine it cranks strong (new batteries) but it does not sputter or fire or even smoke at all.
I had a fuel leak at the banjo (wasn't tightened down enough to crush the washers fully) and the fuel bowl is full, so the pump is working -- though the diesel fuel is ~15 months old at this point.
After searching on here I concluded my CPS may be bad as I did not get any noticeable jump of the tach when doing extended cranking. I swapped on the CPS from the other engine, and now the tach needle moves upward 1-2mm but no further. Is that how far it should move, or do I have two dud CPS's?
As far as lights go, I get the "Wait to start" light when I turn the key to ON, I get the fuel filter / engine temp / water in fuel lights when I first try to start (they go off after a few seconds), and I have the battery light on, though it goes dim during starting it is on throughout the entire process.
I opened the HPOP reservoir and topped off the oil (it was not full), and noticed no change. Oh, ambient temperatures during all of this has been in the mid 60s F.
What should I be looking at/for next? This is my first diesel truck so I'm not sure what to troubleshoot, I'm used to Japanese gas cars. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I will try that when I get home tonight or first thing tomorrow morning. The fuel bowl was empty when I started and within 2-4 15 second cranks I had fuel leaking out of the banjo fitting. At that point I unscrewed the fuel filter and the bowl appeared completely full (in fact, upon reinstalling the fuel filter the FB overflowed just a bit). I think it is generating significant volume, though I have no idea on the pressure levels.
I currently do not have any fuel pressure gauges on the engine (or any in my shop to put on), is this something I should buy and permanently mount somewhere? Any brand or type preferences?
I forgot to mention that the fuel pump is brand new from Ford, installed that with all the other filters/gaskets/etc..
Cranking RPM should be around 100-200 RPM. If you're seeing the tach move while cranking then the PCM should be seeing RPM.
How long have you cranked it overall?
With a totally dry engine it will probably take 3-4 times of cranking it for 30+ seconds each time. It takes awhile for it to fill the HPOP reservoir and the oil rails in the heads. Normally you would take a scan tool and watch ICP pressure while cranking and see what it's building to. You need 500 psi for it to fire.
I'm guessing you have a high pressure oil problem that's keeping it from starting.
Overall I have cranked it 15-20 times, for approximately 10-20 seconds per crank. Since I filled the HPOP reservoir, maybe 3-4 cranks (out of the total 15-20).
ya if you have a new fuel pump that should be fine. only thing left is the oil supply and the injectors firing. just for future knowledge, if you open the schraeder(sp?) valve right by the fuel bowl and fuel squirts/sprays out with some force, you have sufficient fuel pressure.
Yeah, definitely should have started by now. I would start with checking ICP pressure, although without a scan tool it's not easy. Do you have access to a scan tool?
Does the oil pressure gauge move up when cranking on it?
Not sure if the gauge moves, I can check tonight. I do not have access to a scan tool, assuming that is different than an OBD1 or OBD2 code reader, based on relative prices of "code readers" versus "scan tool" on NAPA/Advance sites. Will the schrader valve squirt/spray when the engine is not being cranked, or only during cranking?
You will actually use the OBD 2 port. Not sure how much your looking to spend, but for a scan tool it can be rather salty. Best/cheapest thing you could buy is Auto enginuity software, or as it's usually referred to on here, AE. It's a computer based program for a laptop. Enhanced coverage for fords is going to run you around $350.
If your just talking about getting a code reader it's not going to show you much besides codes if it even logged any.
You can try and measure ICP pressure by backprobing the ICP connector with a voltmeter. The ICP sensor has 3 wires. One is 5 volt reference, one is ground, and one is signal return to the PCM. You need to measure voltage on the signal return wire. .24 volts is 0 psi. .84 is around 500 psi ICP pressure. Figure out which wire is the signal return and measure voltage while cranking. If it doesn't get over .84 volts then it's not building enough ICP pressure.
And double check if the oil pressure gauge is moving up while cranking.
Since it's a mechanical fuel pump only when cranking. It might squirt a little when not cranking but it's just residual pressure in the system. I doubt it's a fuel issue because even with low fuel pressure they will smoke/chug a little when trying to start, unless you have absolutely no fuel pressure. Seeing as you're not seeing any smoke it's probably something else.
I know this is looked badly upon but a squirt of ether to get it going helps. Odds are he has an air bubble in the HPO system and it doesnt wanna push past it. So using ether will make it push past it. Or the longer messier process of cracking an oil rail plug on both heads and letting the oil push the air out that way
I don't have much issue with using ether as long as the glow plug system is disabled, but it will usually only be helpful to overcome something like a high pressure oil leak.
The high pressure oil system on these trucks is self purging and it should bleed the air out of the high pressure oil system just with cranking.
Sounds like your not building low oil pressure. Pull the plug out of the high pressure oil pump reservoir and crank it. It should push oil out of the top of that reservoir. The little single wire sensor on to of the reservoir is your oil pressure switch. If it's not pushing oil out of the reservoir then you have a low pressure oil problem.
Did you have the oil pump off? If so, did you pre lube the oil pump when you put it back together?
I did have the oil pump off to replace seals. I did not pre-lube the pump, sounds like that may be my problem. Can I force oil down into the pump to lubricate it from the top of the engine, or do I have to remove, lube, and reinstall it?
Huh, not really sure if there is a way to force oil back thru the pump, seeing as you would have to force it back up thru the oil cooler. Without a pressurized oil source it would be hard. Only thing I could think of is try and force oil thru the plug on the side of the oil filter/oil cooler housing. Just above the oil filter is a small 1/8" pipe plug. This is where you would check oil pressure coming off the oil pump. You can try and force oil thru there but honestly I think it would just go into the oil filter and not to the pump.
For future reference ALWAYS pre-lube an oil pump when assembling it. I've seen them weld themselves together from not being pre-lubed. I usually use a heavy oil like lucas oil additive or an assembly lube/grease.
I think you might have to pull the pump off and lube it up.
You could try using a grease gun filled with oil not grease. It pumps pretty well just know that it should be cleaned of all grease and the cap/spring plunger thing should be off as it would leak oil out anyways. If you could find the fitting to attach the end of the grease gun to a plug somewhere it would probably be able to force oil back to the pump. I used this method to pre-lube the lifter on a Studebaker 169 flathead that I had just rebuilt. Anyways, hope you get her running.
After pondering removing the oil cooler to force oil in I concluded it would be best to see if I've destroyed the pump anyway. Got the radiator out, gotta go pick up some tools first thing in the morning to finish. I'm going to go ahead and replace the pump regardless (this one has 218k miles on it and I don't want to be going back in there again).
I was looking at the pump on my blown engine and see that there is an inner gear, an outer gear, as well as the external housing. Which surfaces should I oil up? inner/outer but not housing, or all three? Should the pump be dripping with oil or just a thin coat when I put it on the engine? Would gear oil be thick enough, or should I pick up assembly lube or high temp grease while I'm at the store?
Get something like Lucas oil additive and coat everything with it. I smear it in the housing, then coat both parts of the geroter pump. It doesn't really have to be dripping but a liberal coating won't hurt.
Here's the International instructions.....
1. Install the inner gerotor over the crankshaft nose with the word "damper" facing out.
2. Lubricate the outer gerotor with clean engine oil. Install the gerotor in the oil pump housing with the word "damper" facing out.
3. Pack cavities between and around the gerotor with an all purpose assembly grease to insure proper priming at engine startup.
4. Install the square cut seal ring in the oil pump housing groove.
5. Align the dowel pins and install oil pump housing with seal ring and large gerotor gear onto the crankshaft.
6. Install four oil pump housing mounting bolts. Tighten the bolts to the standard torque value.
Here's some torque specs.....
Vibration Damper, Lubricating Oil Pump, Oil Pan, Oil Pick-Up Tube and Front Cover Special Torques Oil Pan Drain Plug
44 N·m (30 lbf·ft)
Replaced the oil pump, lubed it up thoroughly with Lucas oil additive, and got everything back together. Now the truck turns over, builds oil pressure (oil pressure gauge goes to normal), and after 4-7 seconds of cranking starts dumping black smoke out the tailpipe. Occasionally, it will fire once which seems to kick the engine up to about 500rpm, but it will not fire consistently or repeatedly. Temperature today was ~58 degrees. What should I look at or do next?
Haha! Yes it might be bleeding out the high pressure oil rails somewhat. It's good it's at least trying to fire.
How long have you cranked on it this time?
Lets start with the basics. Double check fuel pressure. Have someone crank it while holding open the schrader valve on the side of the fuel filter housing. Fuel should spray out. If it does it probably has sufficient fuel pressure to start.
Double check the glow plug system and make sure it's operating. Take a test light and make sure voltage is going thru the GP relay when you first key on. It will probably stay on for about a minute at those ambient air temps.
Double check oil level. If the engine was totally dry and it's just now started pumping oil thru it the oil level will go down about a quart or 2.
After you check all this try cranking it for about 30 seconds straight. You can even try and hold down the throttle pedal. This will make the PCM give a higher duty cycle to the IPR and make more ICP pressure.
It's kind of hard to figure these trucks out without a good scan tool, but let me know what you find and I'll try and help out as much as possible.
After cranking the 2nd or 3rd time I got out and pushed the schrader valve, there was a little hissing of air being let out but then it sprayed fuel at a decent rate for almost a full second. Given that was after a crank and not during, I think fuel pressure is in pretty good shape.
When cranking I'd tried pumping the throttle pedal (carb'd gas engine style), I will try just holding the pedal down.
I will check the GP system and oil level and let you know. I ran the batteries down a good bit yesterday so hopefully they're charged by now and I can give it a shot.
Do a full 30 second crank with the batteries fully charged. Since it does have all that air in the system every time you stop and crank on it again it's got to try and compress that air. Don't be surprised when it does fire up if it runs like crap, especially at idle. You will have to run the truck hard for about 20 miles to get all the air out of the high pressure oil system.
Might try holding that fuel schrader in a couple more times too, till nothing but fuel is coming out.
I plugged the truck in for a few hours this morning, and checked the glow plug system. The GP relay was bad, my spare was good so I swapped it out. Got the truck running on the 3rd 30 second attempt
Unfortunately, I now have a major oil leak on the back of the engine, passenger side. It's pooling on the starter and bellhousing. Only when running, though. I'm now waiting for the engine to cool down so I can investigate further (couldn't find it by peering around without getting burnt), I'm hoping it is something simple.
Just a heads up. That is the area where the valley has a drain hole. Id check the valley of the engine to see if the leak is topside
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