Hey Guys,
I have a 95' PSD (e350) with 270,000 miles on it. Right now it wont start unless its plugged in. I get the "wait to start" light and I do hear the relay click. I'm thinking the relay should be alright...
With out plugging it in, it cranks and blows a bunch of white smoke...unburned fuel I'm guessing.
SO....i'm thinking glow plugs, BUT just want to make sure, before I start pulling the covers and this being a van, its not going to be fun...
Oh dude I feel for ya having to get down and dirty with that van :doh:
Do you know ANYONE who would lend you their GPR to try before you have to rip off your valve covers? If that doesn't do it then it could be glow plugs or your UVCH. I would suspect bad wiring before the actual glow plugs. Are you familiar with the workings of the UVCH?
Prior to the next cold start, and without plugging it in, jump the relay's large terminals with jumper cables (for about 30 seconds) and see what happens. You can also measure the voltage drop across the relay when the plugs are active (you have up to 1.5 to 2 minutes after the key is turned to Wait-to-Start). Place the meter leads on both large terminals (one on each) and measure the drop. Anything over 0.5V and the relay is bad. Foe a replacement I like the Stancor 586-902 relay. Cheers!
Yep, I did this for a few weeks every morning before I bought a new relay.
You should also see a slight voltage drop on your dash within the 1/2 second between turning the key and your glow plugs activating. If you don't see the drop then your relay is bad.
Also, you don't have to pull the valve covers to test resistance of your glow plugs. You just have to unplug the wiring harnesses and perform an ohm test between leads. Search for a wiring diagram. Ours are a little different than the newer ones and you have to be careful to not mistake the injector leads for the GP leads.
Could there be an ignition problem? Today I was just messing around to see if it would start bc it went below freezing (not plugged in) last night....the SOB started right up this morning!!! Either way I'm replacing the relay but just wanted to see if anyone ran into this problem.
Side note, I can take my key out after I get the rig started....
If you have a test light (or not, go buy a cheap one for $5), find the GPR.
On it you will see one large single wire, and two larger wires on the same terminal. (as well as two small single wires, don't worry about them right now)
The single large wire is always hot (connected to the battery), the other side should only be hot when your glow plugs are on. Put the clamp of the test light on the negative side of the battery, and the put the light on the positive side to confirm it works, so you aren't driving yourself nuts) Then stick the test light on the terminal with the two large wires, then turn the ignition on to where you would wait for the wait to start light to go off. If the test light doesn't come on, then the relay is not working.
If you don't have a test light and don't want to buy one, you can do the same exact thing with any 12 light and some scrap wire. Test light is just a neater package for the same purpose.
I just replaced mine literally 5 minutes ago because it died on me. I just used a starter solenoid from a 96ish f150, just because I happen to have one in my truck. Cost about $10 if I remember correctly. (I use them in Zamboni's, so I usually have on hand)
Starter relay WILL NOT WORK as a GPR. Well, it'll "work", but it'll work TOO well. The coil circuit on a starter relay grounds through its mount. The coil circuit on a GP relay grounds via the wire to the PCM (PCM acts as a "switch" on the ground). So if you install a starter relay, the coil circuit is energized all the time when the key is in RUN; the mount ground "trumps" the PCM. So your GPs will always be glowing.
A voltmeter costs about $10; if you're near a Harbor Freight, about 75% of the time their cheapo one is on sale for $4-5. Does a lot more than a test light; you can use it to measure resistance and voltage drop as well, both valuable when diagnosing GP issues.
Starter relay WILL NOT WORK as a GPR. Well, it'll "work", but it'll work TOO well. The coil circuit on a starter relay grounds through its mount. The coil circuit on a GP relay grounds via the wire to the PCM (PCM acts as a "switch" on the ground). So if you install a starter relay, the coil circuit is energized all the time when the key is in RUN; the mount ground "trumps" the PCM. So your GPs will always be glowing.
Yeah you could be having an ignition problem for sure. I hate electrical issues brother. Have you done any tests with the GPR to rule that out? Sounds like your only problem is that it won't fire properly but it cranks over no problem every time right?
It can't really be an "ignition" problem with a diesel, since ignition is spontaneous with the injection of fuel into hot compressed air. The "ignition" _switch_, operated by the key, doesn't activate the ignition the way it does with spark ignition on a gasser. In any event, if the engine is cranking, the key switch is, in all likelihood, good. I would get a Stancor relay just for good measure, but again, a few tests with a voltmeter should tell you what's going on pretty quick. Not sure where the engine sits relative to the cowl on your van, but the relay is pretty far forward as shown; hopefully it's in fairly easy reach.
Another note on the GPR: The contacts are supposed to rotate a bit so that they don't "wear" in one spot. Sometimes the relay will be in a good position to start the truck and other times it will be on a burned spot and not work well, if at all. Cheers!
does any one know how to take out a stuck glowplug !??? mine on my f-350 crewcab dually obs get´s stcuk and some one told me i have to put out the head of the engine ! and i don´t wanna !do it
im unable to take out from the hole ! hnoes:and i was trying to take out the last one from the passenger side but never come out i change 7 and start and rans fine no strange noise thanks !! i will apreciate any inputs and something nice truck!! with the machine in the trailer
The end swells from being burned or corroded or whatever and that stops it from coming out the hole freely. I have seen vice grips clamped onto the end of the GP and a slide hammer used to pull the stuck plug out. Extremely gently and work it back and forth a little at a time. If that fails then yep, you have to pull the head.
If it starts fine on 7 for you, I would try to get it out but if not I would tighten it back up and forget about it...
ok thanks i will try it !!! and see what´s happend !! by now the batteries where die and is flat out the tires i have more than a month this way b´cos is hard to find parts for this kind of truck down here in mexico ! thank you my friend!!
:liar:
Alright boys....replaced the GPR, still won't start when cold (kinda knew that was going to happen did the test light thing and the old relay was fine).
Replaced the ignition b/c it would start with out a key....thought that might having to do with it...changed nothing.
Next move is to test the glow plugs, how do I do it and what tools do I need? I have no clue about electrical stuff and no clue how to use the ohm readers and what not. Some input would be great!
The GP were last changed at 156k miles, it now has 272k on the clock.....how long do these plugs last?
K...I can't tell you how to use an OHM meter but you can check your GPs by connecting the lead of a test light to the positive terminal on your battery then touch the test light to the tip of each glow plug. If it lights up, the GP works.
As far as getting to the GPs, it's pretty simple. Just need basic hand tools and some metric sockets. Need to loosen/move a couple things and then pull your valve covers. The GPs are tucked in between the injectors and I think they are 10mm. If you are going to that extent I would be changing all the UCVH while I was at it. They could be the reason for your GP issue in the first place.
BTW, you will need a very thin diameter 10mm deep well socket to remove the plugs. I use a Craftsman and it fits. Other thicker walled ones will not fit down into the GP hole.
Use a 1/4"-drive, 10mm deepwell socket to break the GP's loose. Then use a pice of fuel line pushed over the GP end to turn and remove the GP. Be careful to not have the socket (or anything else for that matter) fall off and go down into the depths of the head. It is deep and dark. Don't ask me how I know this. Cheers!
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