97 No Start, bad IPR or LPOP? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:43 AM
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97 No Start, bad IPR or LPOP?

Hi everyone, I've been reading up on this forum and others for days but finally it's time to break down and ask for help.

Short version:

My 97 PSD ran fine, now suddenly won't start, and I have no oil pressure - does this point to a bad LPOP, or could a bad IPR cause no oil pressure as well?

Long version:

I picked up my second Powerstroke, a 97 F-350, two weeks ago. It ran great when I got it, I changed oil (Rotella 15w40), filter (Motorcraft), and fuel filter just to be safe, drove it to work a few times, and towed my Jeep with it last weekend. A couple days ago I started it up and it ran great, put it in gear and it moved about 2 feet and died on me. I started it again, it ran for about a second and then died again. It will crank just fine but won't start.

Of course there has to be an easy explanation for why it would work fine one day and just quit, so I looked up all of the possible reasons I could find, and here's what I've found so far.

- I have no present or stored engine codes, although I believe I have cranked the engine sufficiently to produce IPR/ICP-related codes (10-15 seconds of cranking). This is with a simple scanner, I do not have data streaming capability.
- There's no smoke coming out of the exhaust. No sputtering or hints of firing at all.
- I pulled the fuel filter and the bowl is full of clean fuel.
- I checked the engine oil, it's right at the full mark (and still clean, less than 100 miles since the oil change).
- Checked the glow plug relay (although it's 70-80* here) and I have good voltage on both sides of it with the key on.
- The WTS light does illuminate, and then goes out as expected. Fuse #22 is good, which controls the fuel bowl heater and I read is prone to going out.
- I've checked all of the other fuses as well, some only have power with key on but all of the fuses themselves are good (voltage on both sides of the fuse).
- When cranking, the tachometer reads 200-300 RPM, which I believe indicates the CPS is good.
- I pulled the ICP harness connector on the driver's side fuel rail, so that the computer would use the default IPR map, and that didn't help.
- If I fill the HPOP reservoir, I can get the engine to run for 5-10 seconds before dying; after that it will crank without firing, until I add more oil to the HPOP.

My suspicion is that the LPOP has taken a dive and needs to be replaced (which sounds like a driveway job), or worse, the oil pickup is cracked or damaged and the motor or pan need to be pulled (sounds like a pay-someone job).

I am aware that a faulty IPR would cause the no-start condition. However, even with a bad IPR would I see oil pressure due to the other restrictions in the lube system, such as passages to bearings, lifters/tappets, pushrods, etc.? It seems like an IPR is more likely based on other owners' experiences, but I'm not sure if no oil pressure can be caused by a bad IPR.

Thanks for reading and for any advice anyone can give me; I tried to figure it out by keeping quiet and using the search box, but I just need to know where to go from here.

Brad
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:49 AM
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I wish I knew the answer, then we would both be on the road
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-Stroke... View Post
I wish I knew the answer, then we would both be on the road
Is your truck in a similar situation? Once I typed everything out and posted it, things made a little more sense to me. The fact that I can fill the HPOP and the truck starts seems to indicate that the IPR is working, I think? Because if the IPR were bad and completely open, it wouldn't be able to build any pressure to fire the injectors at all. So although IPR problems seem to be more common than LPOP problems, I am leaning towards LPOP.

Or I've got to find someone with a real scanner or get it towed to a shop.
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:16 PM
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The lpop is an easy change and that is what it sounds like. My son's 94.5 had that very same issue. I bought it not running. Kept filling the hpop reservoir just to see a little smoke. Then it would run out of oil and just crank and crank.... You can put a mechanical gauge where the oil pressure sending unit is to see if it will build pressure. But since it is empty after cranking, you will not be building any pressure because the pump is shot. In my situation, I bought the melling pump from advance (around $80), installed it and it came to life.

There is a test where you can overfill the oil, jack up the rear of the truck and if it will run, then you have the crack in the pickup tube.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bondsman View Post
The lpop is an easy change and that is what it sounds like. My son's 94.5 had that very same issue. I bought it not running. Kept filling the hpop reservoir just to see a little smoke. Then it would run out of oil and just crank and crank.... You can put a mechanical gauge where the oil pressure sending unit is to see if it will build pressure. But since it is empty after cranking, you will not be building any pressure because the pump is shot. In my situation, I bought the melling pump from advance (around $80), installed it and it came to life.

There is a test where you can overfill the oil, jack up the rear of the truck and if it will run, then you have the crack in the pickup tube.
Thanks bondsman. I have read up on the LPOP change and have a harmonic balancer puller/installer so I am hoping to get it changed out tonight. I bought the Melling pump as well for about the same price.

Thanks for reminding me about the jack test. I will try that before I start on the oil pump, and cross my fingers and hope it's just the pump and not the pickup tube.
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:13 PM
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Jacking up the rear end of the truck didn't affect anything, so I figured the pickup tube wasn't a problem. I went ahead and changed the LPOP. All in all it was a pretty easy and straightforward procedure. The timing cover behind the oil pump was in good shape, no gouges or wear that I could see.

Put it all back together, and it still wouldn't start. I did not see any oil pressure indicated on the gauge, either. Finally today I cranked it for quite a while (20+ seconds) and eventually oil pressure came up, then it fired up and idled great. I drove it around and it runs perfect.

If I turn it off, and restart it again within 5-10 seconds, I get oil pressure and it starts right up. If I wait 30 seconds or so, I'm back to 15-20 seconds of cranking before it will start. Any longer than that and I'm back to 20-30 seconds of cranking. Once I see oil pressure, it fires quickly after that. Unplugging the ICP still doesn't affect anything.

What am I looking at now? Faulty IPR? Although if it were completely bad the truck wouldn't start at all, I think. I've read about an anti-drainback valve (or multiple ones?), am I looking at the oil filter housing for this or down in the engine valley?

Although the LPOP wasn't the problem I'm not too upset about changing it, for $80 I bought the Melling pump and I won't have to worry about the OE pump eating away the front cover.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:36 PM
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Description of operations from a service document:

"High-pressure oiling system supplies oil pressure for fuel injector operation. During initial start or cold start, gear-driven high-pressure oil pump receives unfiltered engine oil from driver's side valve lifter oil galley through anti-drain check ball. Once engine starts, or during warm engine starts, anti-drain check ball closes and high-pressure oil pump receives filtered engine oil from high-pressure oil pump reservoir. High-pressure oil pump delivers engine oil through oil rail in cylinder head at pressures of 600-3000 psi (42.19-210.93 kg/cm2 ) to fuel injectors."

Found these pictures that apparently show what it looks like... never taken one apart though, so I'm not sure how it comes apart... i'd be cautious of springs and balls flying out...


You can see the top of the part here with the square socket (spot to use a 3/8" extension?)


And a diagram of it (#3 in the diagram)
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:09 PM
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if you can get scanner that gives you a data stream you could look at the icp and see what the psi is. If its lower than 500-600 psi it wont start. We had one we had to plumb 60 to 70lbs of shop air to find a hp oil leak on, kinda like a 6.0 and found the tpo injector o ring was leaking. Mabe this will help.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:13 PM
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I'd like to offer a different view. Four years ago I bought my first diesel; '97 7.3l all stock. Drove like a champ for 6 months. Started having start up issues when cold and had it emergency towed to a mechanic that happened to still be open on a Saturday (BIG MISTAKE, find a dedicated diesel mechanic). He said it was the fuel pump that went out (yes ours is mechanical but they still wear). Drove for another month and the starting issue got worse to where it would run/idle hot (but would run as long as it was off idle, not happily though) found an excellent diesel mechanic and he set to find the problem. Two months later, pulled engine for full tear-down to find issue, problem was solved. The original fuel pump drive gear had broken off and fallen into the pan wore away at the oil pickup screen and was sucked into the LPOP. It proceeded to sit there and spin against the LPOP wearing a hole through the front cover. This was the oiling problem as it aloud the low presssure oil to drain back into the crankcase. As the hole got bigger more oil went backward and the problem overall got worse. Leave it to a Ford to continue running fine without a fuel pump. Simple-ish check, replace the LPOP BUT before installing the new one check very carefully in the two oil ports for a hole that would allow the oil to drain back into the pan.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:50 PM
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i had a similar problem with mine as well. however, once i did get it running after filling the hpop reservoir it would run fine...until it got cold again or unless i started it on high idle. however, replaced LPOP and all been great since. they're not hard to change if you have some mechanical skills and the rental tool set to remove the fan. good luck
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