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  #1  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:18 AM
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PLZ HELP - 2000 F350 SD 7.3 won't start

I drove my 2000 F350 SD dually home - shut it off - now it won't start.
(almost 300,000 mile)
6 speed standard trans.
NOT 6X6 - wish it was :>)

Won't even fire
- About 5,000 miles on new injectors and glow plugs
- 2,000 miles on fuel filter
- 3/4 tank of fuel
- I replaced the cam sensor - no effect
- I replaced the NEW cam sensor, thinking I might have gotten a bad one - still no start
- Replaced BOTH batteries with new.
- Replaced O-rings on filter bowl
- Can hear fuel pump cycle
- Removed fuel filter, turned ignition on and watched fuel bowl fill
( prob 3-5 seconds to fill)

I thought I might have an "oil pump issue" not allowing injectors to work.
To test this.... against my better judgement, I gave it a shot of starter fluid.

--> Truck fires right up, until starter fluid is burned.
It's my understanding it would NOT fire up on starter fluid, if oil pump was the problem..???

- My Tach doesn't "bounce" when cranking (not sure it is supposed to??)
- My oil pressure gauge doesn't move when cranking (not sure it is supposed to??)

I pastor a small church, and do asphalt work to supplement my income.
The scripture says if a man doesn't work - he doesn't eat ! :>)

I MUST work, and I can't work with-out my truck

Any ideas - what I might look for next. . . ???

Thanks in advance
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:53 AM
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A couple of things I recommend first (you seemed to have covered some of this...)

WTS Light? - do you get it when you first roll-on the key? (VERY IMPORTANT!)

Tach Movement? - does the tach needle move up slightly when cranking? (this is an indication, on a 2000, the PCM "sees" the engine is actually turning over. You Should see the needle move up slightly, maybe not "bounce")

Is it cranking fast enough? - it won't even TRY to start if cranking really slowly.

Is your truck "chipped"? If so, remove it as a Test.

Next, you could try disconnecting the plug on the ICP sensor to det a default value for the IPR to run with. Did you check the plug and sheet metal nut going to the IPR? That nut can vibrate off and allow the solenoid going over the valve to slide around. The wires going to the IPR can get brittle, crack, and short together. Make sure the plug & wires look in good shape. Try "rapping" on the IPR with a screwdriver handle, sometimes if stuck, you can "free it up".

When you use Either (NOT GOOD for your engine At ALL) you're bypassing the entire injection system, it has no relevant indication on oil pressure. Be sure you're not low on oil.

Ultimately, you need a professional scanner to monitor the sensor values to really diagnose what's keeping you from firing-up...
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:55 AM
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Thanks SO MUCH for responding to my dilemma.
Please see my comments below


Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRalPh View Post
A couple of things I recommend first (you seemed to have covered some of this...)

WTS Light? - do you get it when you first roll-on the key? (VERY IMPORTANT!)
YES

Tach Movement? - does the tach needle move up slightly when cranking? (this is an indication, on a 2000, the PCM "sees" the engine is actually turning over. You Should see the needle move up slightly, maybe not "bounce")
I see NO movement


Is it cranking fast enough? - it won't even TRY to start if cranking really slowly.
YES - 2 brand new batteries, I keep putting them on charger to make sure top charge

Is your truck "chipped"? If so, remove it as a Test.
YES - Diablo chip I had it done back in '05 (I think), and I don't have a clue how to remove

Next, you could try disconnecting the plug on the ICP sensor to det a default value for the IPR to run with.
Tried that - still wouldn't start - I did notice some oil in the electrical connector

Did you check the plug and sheet metal nut going to the IPR? That nut can vibrate off and allow the solenoid going over the valve to slide around. The wires going to the IPR can get brittle, crack, and short together. Make sure the plug & wires look in good shape. Try "rapping" on the IPR with a screwdriver handle, sometimes if stuck, you can "free it up".
WHERE is the IPR nut?
I think I found it - on back of HPOP res??
If that is it, the nut is tight, and wires look good.



When you use Either (NOT GOOD for your engine At ALL) you're bypassing the entire injection system, it has no relevant indication on oil pressure. Be sure you're not low on oil.
Oil level is down - maybe 1/8th of an inch from full
(roughly 5,000 mile on oil change)

Hpop reservoir is down maybe 1/2 inch

Ultimately, you need a professional scanner to monitor the sensor values to really diagnose what's keeping you from firing-up...

Problem is; we live out in the country and everybody says; "sure we can scan it - just bring it in."
Wish I could. . . .

Any other suggestions????
I really can't afford to buy parts that may not be defective


Thanks again !
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:05 PM
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Hmmm, let's see...

First thing I don't like is that lack of tach movement. If the PCM was getting no signal from the CPS that's what I'd expect to see. I know you've changed it (twice - right?) but am wondering if you might look further into this. Check the plug & wiring, maybe swap it back with the previous one and recheck for tach signal.

I'd love to see you be able to return the truck to stock programming, I don't know too much about the Diablo, I think you need the tuner and reconnect it to the OBD-II port - right? Maybe letting it sit overnight with both batteries disconnected would reboot the PCM (not to stock though, you'd still have the Diablo programming but it could conceivably straighten it out)

If it ran one day and wouldn't start the next I wouldn't be thinking your oil pump (the HPOP res is full so, it's gotta be doing something) This sounds more like an electrical issue. Sensor, wiring, etc.. Have you gone through the fusebox? If the IDM fuse or relay was out it could do that...
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:46 PM
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Please see my "blue response"

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRalPh View Post

Hmmm, let's see...

First thing I don't like is that lack of tach movement. If the PCM was getting no signal from the CPS that's what I'd expect to see. I know you've changed it (twice - right?) but am wondering if you might look further into this. Check the plug & wiring, maybe swap it back with the previous one and recheck for tach signal.
I checked the plug and wiring - both seem OK

I'd love to see you be able to return the truck to stock programming, I don't know too much about the Diablo, I think you need the tuner and reconnect it to the OBD-II port - right? Maybe letting it sit overnight with both batteries disconnected would reboot the PCM (not to stock though, you'd still have the Diablo programming but it could conceivably straighten it out)
Are you suggesting I remove the Diablo and then batteries disconnected over night?
If so, I'm not even certain WHERE the DIABLO chip is located, since I had someone install it at a garage.



If it ran one day and wouldn't start the next I wouldn't be thinking your oil pump (the HPOP res is full so, it's gotta be doing something) This sounds more like an electrical issue. Sensor, wiring, etc.. Have you gone through the fusebox? If the IDM fuse or relay was out it could do that...
I pulled EVERY fuse out and checked them all today - Under the dash and under the hood.

I do not understand the fuel delivery system of a diesel.
That being said, it seems to me there is no fuel getting to the cylinders...

Is there a relay or something that is activated, sending fuel to the injectors??
It just acts like a gasoline engine does when you crank it with the coil disconnected . .

It would seem to me IF there was fuel getting to the cycilnders, there would be something come out of the exhaust.

IGNORANCE AND POVERTY ARE SUCH A HANDICAP !

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  #6  
Old 07-21-2012, 06:24 AM
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As I understand it, as I said I'm not real familiar with the Diablo, it is a "reflash" device. That is, there may not be a chip at all. The device merely reprograms the existing software in the stock PCM. These devices are made to only reprogram One PCM at a time (while it retains that computers original image for returning to stock) Not sure how you could have it "done" at a garage. Maybe that's not what you have. If you have a chip, it will be attached to the back of the PCM. It "hangs-out" of the computer plugged into an edge connectors slot in the cover. Take a look at the PCM, might be a good time to check the connections there anyway.

Disconnecting the batteries is just like unplugging your home PC when it's confused. A reboot clears that confusion sometimes...

Basically, the injection system works like this;

Fuel is pressurized by the pump, goes through the filter into the heads and available to the injectors at something over 50psi. Your pump runs & refills the filter housing in a few seconds so, that sounds pretty normal.

The engine oil pump fills the reservoir that the High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) uses to supply pressurized oil to the injectors and is used by them to drive the fuel into the cylinders (each injector is it's own "pump" unlike conventional injection). Your HPOP res is full so the oil is there for it to do it's job. If the engine oil pump (LPOP) wasn't pumping oil the HPOP would empty that res quickly. It would be unusual for a HPOP to just "fail" from one start to the next.

The injectors are then controlled by the PCM, once it "sees" sufficient cranking rpm and High Pressure Oil available, through the IDM (Injector Driver Module). This HP Oil is sensed by the ICP and regulated by the IPR. The IDM sends High Voltage to control the injectors through connections in the Valve Cover gasket. All these devices, sensors, fuses, relays, and connections are more likely to cause a sudden problem that shows-up from one start to the next. (Here's a guy who became convinced that Every no-start was a relay but he's got a good post you might read -> Quest For Knowledge)

The problem You're going to have is, it's kinda hard, without the proper diagnostic tools, to know what's Not doing what it supposed to

You sound like you've already done a lot, keep checking stuff, but in the end you might need to get it connected to the right scanner. Here too is another hurdle. Despite the OBD-II connector, our trucks are NOT strictly OBD-II. This means you need a specialized scanner and the generic ones everybody has are of little use. You need a professional who's got professional tools. Most here use an affordable alternative called the AutoEnginuity. Maybe you can find someone locally who has one to help you, look in the "Forums by State" section here if you get completely stuck.
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  #7  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:19 AM
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I had a mechanic scan it this morning.
He said I need a IDM (Injector Driver Module)

Anybody got one - reasonable??

2000 F350 SD 7.3
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2012, 05:31 AM
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--- U P D A T E ---

I replaced the IDM (Injector Driver Module)

It started first try, and I let is sit and idle for about 30 min.

Gonna try driving it on the road today

Thanks to all
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