CHARGE AIR COOLER TUBE BLOWS! - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:57 PM
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Question CHARGE AIR COOLER TUBE BLOWS!

I have a buddy with a 2011 f450 4x4 auto with the H&S black max (updated to the latest version), dpf & urea delete, egr delete (h&s), AFE cold air intake, 9,700 miles. Runs on the mild tune. Below I will give you all the info and backup info I can, I have tons of time and dollars invested into this assisting my buddy trying to find the issue due to the fact Ford will not work on because of the delete/mods. I completely understand their stance, we took the chance and now we have to make it work, I don't blame Ford.

Performed the above deletes at 700 miles due to poor mileage and the urea issues. Drove great and performed flawlessly for the next 9000 miles. He was returning from a camping trip with a load of around 12,000 lbs, running 65mph, just climbed a decent hill (as much of a hill as you can find in SD), came down the decent, hit the flat and all of a sudden a loud boom. No boost and just blowing the black smoke like crazy. He called me for a tow and now I have to try and find the problem.

I own a small independant shop, work on all models and bleed ford blue! We knew when we deleted that he ran the risk of voiding warranty etc. Upon inspection I found the black outgoing tube (all plastic nearest the radiator and has the boost sensor in it) from the CAC cooler returning back to the turbo was blown, about a golf ball size hole in it. I replaced the tube and tested as follows (no codes or history in codes, I own and use a snap-on verus so i can look at all the telemetry etc).

Took out for a drive, and all was well, no issues, great mileage, tons of power, no smoke etc. Hooked on to his camper, made it 5 miles out of town climbed a hill, went down the hill then boom!. Towed back.

Same results, blown out CAC tube, in the exact same place. Performed the following:
Removed CAC cooler to ensure there was no blockage in the fins that could cause a restriction - completely clean - no coolant leaks either, holds presure!
Inspected egr valve (which is unplugged due to the H&S tune/mods), found what looked like a golf ball sized black mark on the face of butterfly and splatter to match. So i figure well mayby butterfly is getting sucked shut causing this issue. I removed the assembly, removed the butterfly so only the rod is left inside. Then I was curious to see what was further down the line.
Pulled the upper intake manifold - manifold is clean as can be, all ports in top of engine are clean, barely get any residue on finger when wiped inside, no issues at all. Upon inspecting the turbo, the large clamp on the front of turbo has a small amount of exhaust blowby/black carbon only at the mating point (about a 1/4 gap on the clamp) but the mating of the two surfaces looks tight, just that small area of black residue.
Cleaned up and checked to make sure the turbo actuator was plugged in correctly and no frayed wires or anything - all good. ressembled and tried again. Ford does post a TSB that any exhuast leak can cause an overboost situation, but we are not over boosting - never goes over 27psi.
Took out for a drive again - no issues, ran great, idles great no smoke etc. Tied onto his camper again - same results!

This time i removed all same parts as above, checked again and this time i replaced the turbo actuator. this is a electrically controlled valve that controls the amount of oil going through certain sections of the turbo depending on what it needs at specific times/engine load etc. Reassembled and tested, blown again with only a load on same hill at the same speed.

Just a note on this as well, since this is a f450, it does not have the wastegate actuator due to the gvw rating.

At my shop we utilize Alldata, and i have a pretty good relationship with our nearest Ford Dealer. I have a good amount of technical info available to me and have tried everything that Ford has put out on Alldata and the advice from the Ford store. I have great mechanics, but they are knowledgable with the 7.3 and 6.0, we are always learning with the 6.4 (which i personally love, just hate the access issues for repairs), was excited about he new 6.7, because they eliminated some of those access issues, but appears to have some hidden gremlins.

My next option is a turbo. The only thing that i hate about the delete package for the 6.7 is the turbo noise and whistling, it does seem to free up the air restriction to much possibly? Maybey this turbo does need more backpresure?

Any advice or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated.

I will take some pictures and post soon of the parts and failures so far.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:05 PM
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We have 7 of these trucks that are all stock and we repeatedly blow the intake tubes. We actually keep a spare one and I have some "homemade" parts to temporarily fix it on the side of the road.
I believe the failures have to do with the throttle actuator sticking closed on occasion...
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:50 AM
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Is the actuator your talking about a small soliniod on bottom of turbo or the butterfly connected to the charge air tube? Thanks for the reply.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:13 AM
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Throttle actuator... its just after the tube you are referring to when following the airflow...
The throttle actuator tends to give the dealership fits when troubleshooting since it does not generate a code when it sticks.... the engine just will not start. I believe the repeated turbo failures, accelleration lag, and the CAC line failures are all directly related to the actuators sticking!. When they stick closed, even temporarily, you basically dead-head the turbo.. drive presures start varying wildly and imbalance the turbo, not to mention the air getting stacked up in the CA line....
Putting a throttle actuator on a diesel engine was not one of Fords best ideas...
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:15 PM
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Have you tuned any or are they all stock?
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:17 PM
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all stock.. all service and repair work performed by dealerships....
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:15 PM
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I've got to wonder if it's an issue with the tune. Possibly too much boost at the wrong time. The throttle plate closes to restrict boost and allow more EGR flow. You need exhaust back pressure to be higher than boost or the EGR will not positively flow.

Personally I had a vehicle with a shorted out TAC wire that caused the exact same situation. Throttle plate closed under heavy boost and annihilated the cold side cac tube. The vehicle had an aftermarket VMAC compressor though and the bracket was smashing the main engine harness causing the issue. It did generate a DTC.

I have replaced cab and chassis turbos for the exhaust leak you describe. Some will make an audible whistle when cold.

Since it hasn't always happened I'd be inclined to check the EGR coolers for blockage. There is a known issue with coolers plugging up, maybe you're getting reduced EGR flow and the pcm is trying to compensate somehow. Or like stated before, a failed throttle actuator.

Last edited by sinner6.0L; 10-03-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:26 PM
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Have you been able to get it fixed successfully?
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinner6.0L View Post
I've got to wonder if it's an issue with the tune. Possibly too much boost at the wrong time. The throttle plate closes to restrict boost and allow more EGR flow. You need exhaust back pressure to be higher than boost or the EGR will not positively flow.

Personally I had a vehicle with a shorted out TAC wire that caused the exact same situation. Throttle plate closed under heavy boost and annihilated the cold side cac tube. The vehicle had an aftermarket VMAC compressor though and the bracket was smashing the main engine harness causing the issue. It did generate a DTC.

I have replaced cab and chassis turbos for the exhaust leak you describe. Some will make an audible whistle when cold.

Since it hasn't always happened I'd be inclined to check the EGR coolers for blockage. There is a known issue with coolers plugging up, maybe you're getting reduced EGR flow and the pcm is trying to compensate somehow. Or like stated before, a failed throttle actuator.
I think he said the truck is deleted. I'd be looking at the throttle plate, or the tune, first.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:18 PM
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no results to report on this. going to take back to stock and see what happens. thanks for all your reply's. I was hoping to find this to be a more common issue.
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