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  #1  
Old 06-20-2014, 06:32 PM
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New Audio System Advice

I want to upgrade the stereo system in my truck. I've ordered a custom subwoofer enclosure from SuperCrewSound.com that will hold two 10 inch subwoofers.


Ford F-250/F-350 Supercrew Cab 08-14 Dual BTS Subwoofer Box


What kind of subwoofers are known for their punch, response, and accuracy???

--- I ONLY want to feel the bass drum kick from the subwoofer, NO strung out bass notes that make the truck vibrate!!!

--- I know this is an unrealistic goal and most of it depends on the music being played, but I want to get as close to this bass characteristic as possible.


What else do I need to make this work?

--- Amplifier?

--- Interface?

--- Capacitator?
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2014, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantron View Post
I want to upgrade the stereo system in my truck. I've ordered a custom subwoofer enclosure from SuperCrewSound.com that will hold two 10 inch subwoofers.


Ford F-250/F-350 Supercrew Cab 08-14 Dual BTS Subwoofer Box


What kind of subwoofers are known for their punch, response, and accuracy???

--- I ONLY want to feel the bass drum kick from the subwoofer, NO strung out bass notes that make the truck vibrate!!!

--- I know this is an unrealistic goal and most of it depends on the music being played, but I want to get as close to this bass characteristic as possible.


What else do I need to make this work?

--- Amplifier?

--- Interface?

--- Capacitator?
The tighter the bass the smaller and more sealed you want the box. Your goal is to create a high pressure seal that prevent the speaker from easily moving the cone and having easy excursion. This requires more power to move the speaker though, but you will pick up the "kick" more than the resonance (the part you don't want to hear. Have the box designed so both subwoofer are completely sealed off from each other and the box as sealed as possible. Should have a significant amount of resistance when trying to push the cones in, and when you push one in, it should make the other move at all.

JL Audio 10tw3 shallow sub 1cu ft completely sealed box
Amazon.com : Jl Audio 10tw3-d4 Shallow-mount 10 : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics Amazon.com : Jl Audio 10tw3-d4 Shallow-mount 10 : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics

Kicker zxs1500.1 mono class d amp
Amazon.com : Kicker 12 ZXS1500.1 Mono Class D Car Amplifier : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics Amazon.com : Kicker 12 ZXS1500.1 Mono Class D Car Amplifier : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics

For two 10s and that kicker amp you really won't need an external capacitor. You might want to consider a sound processor to control the frequency and sound of the bass
Audio Control DQ-61
Amazon Amazon

My credentials: 6 years as Regional Manager and MECP Master Installer for Best Buy. Also 2001/2002/2003 IASCA SQ+ National Judge. I've personally owned 3 vehicles that have own national sound quality competitions.

I would suggest a lot more equipment to replace the oem gear and a new head unit, but I'm learning how to reply to questions being asked only
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Last edited by IronCobra; 06-20-2014 at 08:51 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2014, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronCobra View Post
The tighter the bass the smaller and more sealed you want the box. Your goal is to create a high pressure seal that prevent the speaker from easily moving the cone and having easy excursion. This requires more power to move the speaker though, but you will pick up the "kick" more than the resonance (the part you don't want to hear. Have the box designed so both subwoofer are completely sealed off from each other and the box as sealed as possible. Should have a significant amount of resistance when trying to push the cones in, and when you push one in, it should make the other move at all.

JL Audio 10tw3 shallow sub 1cu ft completely sealed box
Amazon.com : Jl Audio 10tw3-d4 Shallow-mount 10 : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics

Kicker zxs1500.1 mono class d amp
Amazon.com : Kicker 12 ZXS1500.1 Mono Class D Car Amplifier : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics

For two 10s and that kicker amp you really won't need an external capacitor. You might want to consider a sound processor to control the frequency and sound of the bass
Audio Control DQ-61
Amazon.com : Audio Control DQ-61 OEM Sound Processor : Vehicle Equalizers : Car Electronics

My credentials: 6 years as Regional Manager and MECP Master Installer for Best Buy. Also 2001/2002/2003 IASCA SQ+ National Judge. I've personally owned 3 vehicles that have own national sound quality competitions.

I would suggest a lot more equipment to replace the oem gear and a new head unit, but I'm learning how to reply to questions being asked only
I've struck forum gold with you on this thread! I can't imagine there being anyone with better credentials for this topic. You can throw out as much information and as many suggestions as you can on my threads...

The custom box I ordered gave me the option to add acoustic stuffing, which I declined because I wasn't sure what it did. Should I have done that? I figured that adding acoustic stuffing later wouldn't be hard once I knew how it affects the sound.

As far as the amazon linked products, those were a bit more than I was looking to spend on this system. I have Ford's upgraded sony audio system right now and it's not bad with a single 8 inch sub behind the rear seat. It won't compare to my old Tahoe with Polk speakers, Memphis 10's, and dual 1000 watt amps. However, I'm not seeking that kind of power anymore. I'm almost satisfied with the factory system. I'll be better off spending less and getting a decent upgrade over Sony's audio system than buying top of the line, super pricey audio components. I'll be okay as long as it doesn't sound worse.

I'm looking at BOSS audio components right now on Amazon? They seem to have good reviews and the prices are insanely low..
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2014, 01:08 AM
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If you want tight, punchy bass, I would suggest one or two 8" subwoofers, in a sealed enclosure.

As you already have a box, you need to match the sub to the enclosure.

The issue is the .5 cu. ft. per sub...... a bit on the small side for mainstream 10 inch subwoofer. You can stuff the box, which will make the driver "see" a larger enclosure, but it only works up to a certain point. I've never been a big fan of stuffing boxes, unless its to reduce standing waves in a parallel baffle (square) box. You can put a sub with a larger volume requirement into a smaller box, but performance will suffer. Also you have to take into account the woofers displacement(the volume the driver takes up), usually .03 to .05 for an average 10" driver, which reduces that .50 cubic Ft to .47-.45. That size enclosure is perfect(and too large for a few) for most 8's IMHO, but too small for your average budget friendly 10" sub.

If the order was just placed, and you're open to 8" subs, that's the route I'd go. JL's 8W1v3 would be a nice fit with some blocking inside the enclosure to get the right volume, or if 10's it must be, then the 10w1v3 would be okay, but the box is about 10% to small..... but that shouldn't affect it too much, just might get dicey at higher power levels. Both have acceptable mounting depths......

http://www.jlaudio.com/10w1v3-2-car-...-drivers-92080

http://www.jlaudio.com/8W1v3-4-car-a...-drivers-92079

The 8" model is a 4 ohm, the 10" is a two ohm.

You don't need a capacitor. Won't hurt, but you don't need one.

I would look at five channel amplifiers, most today have built in x-overs, subsonic filtering for the low channel, and can easily drive a system like you're after. Plus ease of install....

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_347150/....html?tp=35808

As far as interfaces, I honestly have no clue. I've never used one, always ditched the stock HU...... but never had a spiffy factory HU either lol.

Last edited by ianstew; 06-21-2014 at 01:21 AM.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2014, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianstew View Post
If you want tight, punchy bass, I would suggest one or two 8" subwoofers, in a sealed enclosure.

As you already have a box, you need to match the sub to the enclosure.

The issue is the .5 cu. ft. per sub...... a bit on the small side for mainstream 10 inch subwoofer. You can stuff the box, which will make the driver "see" a larger enclosure, but it only works up to a certain point. I've never been a big fan of stuffing boxes, unless its to reduce standing waves in a parallel baffle (square) box. You can put a sub with a larger volume requirement into a smaller box, but performance will suffer. Also you have to take into account the woofers displacement(the volume the driver takes up), usually .03 to .05 for an average 10" driver, which reduces that .50 cubic Ft to .47-.45. That size enclosure is perfect(and too large for a few) for most 8's IMHO, but too small for your average budget friendly 10" sub.

If the order was just placed, and you're open to 8" subs, that's the route I'd go. JL's 8W1v3 would be a nice fit with some blocking inside the enclosure to get the right volume, or if 10's it must be, then the 10w1v3 would be okay, but the box is about 10% to small..... but that shouldn't affect it too much, just might get dicey at higher power levels. Both have acceptable mounting depths......

10W1v3-2 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Drivers - W1v3 - JL Audio

8W1v3-4 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Drivers - W1v3 - JL Audio

The 8" model is a 4 ohm, the 10" is a two ohm.

You don't need a capacitor. Won't hurt, but you don't need one.

I would look at five channel amplifiers, most today have built in x-overs, subsonic filtering for the low channel, and can easily drive a system like you're after. Plus ease of install....

5-channel Amplifiers at Crutchfield.com

As far as interfaces, I honestly have no clue. I've never used one, always ditched the stock HU...... but never had a spiffy factory HU either lol.
I appreciate your input. I actually had to debate between 8" subs or 10" subs before I pulled the trigger on the 10's. It's not too late for me to cancel though. I was afraid the 8's wouldn't kick hard enough, even after reading that smaller subs will have more punch and quicker response. Right now I have to turn my volume up to at least 75% to feel a decent kick from the stock 8" sub, but it's not the same enclosure like the custom box will be and I'm sure a good aftermarket sub and amplifier will have more output.

I'm not completely opposed to getting JL subs. I read somewhere their price doesn't reflect the actual increase in quality, but that's coming from a quick internet search. I haven't been able to experience or compare them in person.

I thought this subwoofer was interesting when I came across it on Amazon. It's supposedly a shallower than the JL shallow mount, 61mm vs. 117mm. Not sure if they're any good or not though..

Amazon.com : Boss Audio NX10FD ONYX Subwoofer : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics Amazon.com : Boss Audio NX10FD ONYX Subwoofer : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:50 AM
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I've never personally dealt with boss audio, but I've heard about them.

if it were my coin, I'd go with JL, or for budget friendlier, something like kicker comps, etc....I'd take mtx or Rockford over Boss, but that's my
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:26 AM
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Wow. I just noticed JL's W1v3 ($179) in your link is way cheaper than JL's tw3-d4 ($399) from the earlier link. How much better can the more expensive model be???
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:15 AM
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The W1 is JLs lowest model. The W3 is their purpose built model.

If price is a concern, then you definitely want to avoid Boss, Pyle, Pyramid and other extremely low end brands. The quality of the voice coils as well as their ability to handle spikes in power (that would be needed in a small sealed box) will cause them to distort and fail much quicker than a quality speaker. I would say that a good low cost subwoofer would be Planet Audio, Infiniti, MB Quart. For a 10" sub you should be able to spend around$80-100 per sub for something nice. I will post some recommendations when I get a chance. Also, Kicker makes great amps that are in the $100 price range. They are always underrated (a good thing) and provide clean power. Plus they have have auto turn on, so you won't need to run a relay for you 6vt. Oem remote power lead that you factory amp uses.

Honestly in the right enclose with the right 10" sub and amp, you would only need 1 sub. That would be my recommendation.

Believe it or not, after installing a new Pioneer Nav unit in my truck and connecting it to the factory sub and amp, it blew my mind. The output and sound actually was very very impressive. The factory head unit really stiffles the performance of the factory speakers.

I had purchased an MB Quart 10" sub and 300.1 kicker amp I returned after hearing how good the factory sub sounded.

Last edited by IronCobra; 06-21-2014 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:33 AM
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Here are some more budget friendly systems

Subs

Amazon.com : Kicker 10C104 Comp 10-Inch Subwoofer 4 Ohm (Black) : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics Amazon.com : Kicker 10C104 Comp 10-Inch Subwoofer 4 Ohm (Black) : Vehicle Subwoofers : Car Electronics

Amazon Amazon

Amazon Amazon

Amazon Amazon

Amp

Amazon Amazon

Amazon Amazon

Note: keep in mind the Planet Audio sub is dual voice coil, so it will perform best on a 2 channel amp. You can use the mono amp but it will run it at a higher temp.

Just remember that you are always more likely to damage a speaker and pick up distorted sound by under powering it vs over powering it. When you underpowered a sub, you increase the noise and clipping when you increase the volume. Another rule of thumb is to avoid an enclosure that is smaller than the min. recommended specs for the sub. For instance, don't put a sub that requires a min of .75cu ft of air space in a .5cu ft box

When building systems, especially for sound quality (not just high SPL for bass), I've found through experience that you should only use the recommended internal space specs loosely. I always fine tuned the box by designing it to produce the sub effect I was looking for. For instance, sometimes I would run Sub designed for small sealed enclosures in large vented enclosures....to achieve the sound I was looking for. To need do be flexible.

Both amps above have low pass filters that should allow you to fine tune the sound. Also, regarding internal baffling, you shouldn't need any if the box has between .75-1.5 cu ft of internal volume per speaker. The baffling simply slows the airs ability to travel in the box and acts as a way of fooling the speaker to think its in a larger box. You can always remove it or just simply buy baffling material at any fabric store. It's cheap

Last edited by IronCobra; 06-21-2014 at 09:00 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2014, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronCobra View Post
The W1 is JLs lowest model. The W3 is their purpose built model.

If price is a concern, then you definitely want to avoid Boss, Pyle, Pyramid and other extremely low end brands. The quality of the voice coils as well as their ability to handle spikes in power (that would be needed in a small sealed box) will cause them to distort and fail much quicker than a quality speaker. I would say that a good low cost subwoofer would be Planet Audio, Infiniti, MB Quart. For a 10" sub you should be able to spend around$80-100 per sub for something nice. I will post some recommendations when I get a chance. Also, Kicker makes great amps that are in the $100 price range. They are always underrated (a good thing) and provide clean power. Plus they have have auto turn on, so you won't need to run a relay for you 6vt. Oem remote power lead that you factory amp uses.

Honestly in the right enclose with the right 10" sub and amp, you would only need 1 sub. That would be my recommendation.

Believe it or not, after installing a new Pioneer Nav unit in my truck and connecting it to the factory sub and amp, it blew my mind. The output and sound actually was very very impressive. The factory head unit really stiffles the performance of the factory speakers.

I had purchased an MB Quart 10" sub and 300.1 kicker amp I returned after hearing how good the factory sub sounded.
I know! The Ford sound settings are terrible! Low, Mid, High: -5 or +5... That's it? The speed compensated volume... Does nothing for me! How can I adjust the output settings without having to replace the factory screen?

If the JL's are truly unique and they make a difference, I might as well get them. This audio system upgrade was a low priority mod, but I guess there's no point in skimping out now. I thought JL was all hype..

I'm leaning towards two JL 8" subs now. Good idea? I think two 8's might be better for this situation. I should change my custom sub-box order by Monday..
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