Full DPF and EGR delete - suddenly some sort of exhaust leak - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:39 PM
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Full DPF and EGR delete - suddenly some sort of exhaust leak

Hey all,

I need your collective wisdom again. Here's the scenario: Bought a 2008 F250 with 118K on the clock the last day of 2013. Promptly deleted the DPF and I'm running a H&S Mini Maxx w/HD300 tunes. Also changed out intake to S&B, added CCV canister all at the same time.

The truck now has 122K and just recently did a full EGR delete, using Sinister's kit with elbow. Also did the Flo-Pro cold side tube and Sinister coolant filter. I have about 500 miles on the delete. This morning I started the truck and notice a new sound. It sounded like a MAJOR vacuum leak. My first thought was one of the turbo tubes popped off. I couldn't be so lucky. I was headed to town so thought I'd run by my diesel shop. I noticed that my EGT's would bounce up and down under a load. It never did this before. When accelerating up a hill it would bounce erratically from around 600 to 100 and back up high, etc. I also noticed WAY more black smoke out the exhaust and the truck didn't seem to have as much pep as before.

At the diesel shop the tech crawled around and looked around while I revved the motor up and down. After awhile he said he thinks its an exhaust leak either at the lower EGR block off plate or in the bellows on that same pipe. He thinks it blew because I don't have a waste gate. Now I closely monitor my gauges because this is all new to me and I know the EBP's haven't been above 25 and my EGT's haven't been anywhere close to 1000. Anyway, he suggested I put a new gasket at the block off plate, if it still leaks he suggested taking the entire pipe off where it T's into the main pipe and use the block off plate there.

So, I stopped by the dealer and bought a new gasket and will try that. Here's the weird thing. On the way home (I'm talking a 40 mile one way drive, mostly up hill) my truck smoked like freight train, and my EGT's got up to close to 1000. Also, EBP got up to around 30 at one point. Definitely not the usual behavior.

Can anyone give me an idea of what might be going on? I've not heard of anyone else getting an exhaust leak from doing the EGR delete or because of exhaust back pressure. Also, why would an exhaust leak cause it to blow way more black smoke? Any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:00 PM
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Any codes?
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:01 PM
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Nope no codes.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:57 PM
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I haven't figured out this multiquote thing so bare with me. First, not having a WG is NOT why this happened so we rule out the tech as being super knowledgeable about 6.4s. It definitely sounds like you are on the right track with this being an exhaust leak. When the exhaust leaks, you have less pressure driving the turbos so you get less boost/air. That makes everything run richer which in diesel means smokier and hotter. Now a question, when you blowing this black smoke, was your boost off from what is normal for the same throttle position, gear, incline? My guess is the reason why your EBP got high on the way home is your truck is trying to compensate for the loss of boost by adjusting the vanes. Now the real question is where is the leak coming from??? Up pipe failures are very common on the 6.4....it was a ch#tty design to put the bends in the up pipe and not the exhaust manny. Many times that leak will show up as soot on the firewall cause they tend to crack in the back. It has been so long since I had an EGR and stock up pipes, I forget the exact arrangement of the pipes and bellows, but the tech may be right about the bellow leaking or even the block off plate. Since you put some more smokey miles on it, the soot should be starting to accumulate near the leak so hopefully it will be easier to pinpoint the exact location of it now compared to when you went to the diesel shop.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:11 PM
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Your response makes perfect sense to me. I can tell you the sucking (or blowing sound, in this case) sound seems to be coming from the back of the motor on the driver's side. I'm still figuring out the layout of the plumbing on this motor so I'm not sure what/where the up-pipe is. I'm pretty sure that the sound is coming from the pipe that the lower EGR was attached to. If I understand it right the exhaust is routed from the manifold on the passenger side, up to the back of the motor where it T's and goes to the turbo, on one side and to the lower EGR on the other. Is that the up-pipe? Is this the pipe that everyone replaces and can one replace it without lifting the cab?

I've read about the up-pipe cracking. Is there a common place where they crack and is my description sounding like that is what happened? If so, is that related to the EGR delete I just did or is it a coincidence?

Sorry for the questions but as I said, I'm still trying to figure all this out. Thanks again for your great responses. Keep them coming.
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:23 AM
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Well I've been doing lots of reading on this and countless other forums and also climbed around and under my truck. I definitely have an exhaust leak at the bellows of the driver's side up-pipe. I called the diesel shop and talked to the owner who immediately diagnosed the problem based on me telling him my symptoms. He said it's not usual for the bellows to break after deleting the EGR cooler because the up-pipe in no longer supported.

Bottom line is he said he could take off the driver's side up-pipe and reuse the block off plate to block off the exhaust right behind the turbo. He said worse case scenario would be $400 and could be less if he didn't have any trouble. This sounds really reasonable to me and since my knuckles and arms are still healing from the EGR delete I think I'll go this route.

How does the price sound to you? Any other comment, tips or advice are greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutch2 View Post
Well I've been doing lots of reading on this and countless other forums and also climbed around and under my truck. I definitely have an exhaust leak at the bellows of the driver's side up-pipe. I called the diesel shop and talked to the owner who immediately diagnosed the problem based on me telling him my symptoms. He said it's not usual for the bellows to break after deleting the EGR cooler because the up-pipe in no longer supported.

Bottom line is he said he could take off the driver's side up-pipe and reuse the block off plate to block off the exhaust right behind the turbo. He said worse case scenario would be $400 and could be less if he didn't have any trouble. This sounds really reasonable to me and since my knuckles and arms are still healing from the EGR delete I think I'll go this route.

How does the price sound to you? Any other comment, tips or advice are greatly appreciated.
I only have my phone on me right now so this will be brief. Changing an up pipe cab on is a ***** so that sounds reasonable
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:36 PM
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It sounds like yours is like mine. The bellows on the pipe that fed the EGR started leaking after my EGR delete. I think it was stressed during the delete, and something inside there broke loose.

I removed the pipe, and relocated the block off plate to where the pipe had been connected, and tapped a hole in the block off plate to mount the EBP sensor in. It's worked great ever since. It was a pain though. It sounds like that's what your guy is planning to do. Some people have problems with their EBP tubes freezing up in cold weather once the EGR is removed, but relocating the EBP sensor to the back of the engine should eliminate that problem.

The first thing to do would be to figure out exactly where it's leaking and go from there. If it's one of the main uppipes then you'll have to replace it/them, but if it's the former EGR pipe, you can do without that one.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Adams View Post
It sounds like yours is like mine. The bellows on the pipe that fed the EGR started leaking after my EGR delete. I think it was stressed during the delete, and something inside there broke loose.

I removed the pipe, and relocated the block off plate to where the pipe had been connected, and tapped a hole in the block off plate to mount the EBP sensor in. It's worked great ever since. It was a pain though. It sounds like that's what your guy is planning to do. Some people have problems with their EBP tubes freezing up in cold weather once the EGR is removed, but relocating the EBP sensor to the back of the engine should eliminate that problem.

The first thing to do would be to figure out exactly where it's leaking and go from there. If it's one of the main uppipes then you'll have to replace it/them, but if it's the former EGR pipe, you can do without that one.
I'm almost positive it's leaking at the bellows. You say you removed you up-pipe yourself? How hard was it? Is it worth paying someone else $400 to do it. Like I said, I'm still recovering from deleting the EGR.
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mhutch2 View Post
I'm almost positive it's leaking at the bellows. You say you removed you up-pipe yourself? How hard was it? Is it worth paying someone else $400 to do it. Like I said, I'm still recovering from deleting the EGR.
Yes, I did it myself. I don't think it was as bad as removing the EGR, but it felt like it at the time.

I've heard you can get that pipe out whole, but I couldn't figure out a way to do it. I ended up cutting it in two places, and it was still tricky to get out. I made the bottom cut with a sawzall, and the top cut with an oscillating tool and a small hack saw. There's probably an easier way, but I got the job done.

Drilling and tapping the block off plate is easy, obviously, if you're familiar with doing that kind of thing. If I remember right it's 1/4" NPT thread. The flare fittings for the sensor are 5/16" JIC, which is somewhat uncommon.

Some people reuse their EBP tube and fittings. If you're going to do that, I'd recommend bending it so that the EBP sensor is higher than the other end of tube. I think moisture could condense in there if there's a place for it to sit. Some people choose to shorten and re-flare the tube. I chose to eliminate it altogether and use a straight NPT to flare adapter and a 45 degree flare to flare adapter.

I had to extend the wiring to the EBP sensor, but that was easy. If I remember right it's just 3 wires that need to be cut and have an extra 12" or so soldered on to them.

As for whether or not it's worth $400, I guess that depends on how much you value your $400. I have a hard time parting with my hard-earned money, especially for something I can do myself, so I did it. I'd say it took me a solid 4 hours to do the job, at least, in addition to a lot of frustration and scrapes on my hands and arms.

Oh, and speaking of scrapes on your arms, it would be helpful to have an extra pair of hands while you're bolting on the relocated block off plate at the back of the engine. It's not possible for one person to get 2 hands back there. I used magnets to hold bolts in place for me, but having someone else helping me would have made it much easier.
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