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Keeping dpf, which tuner? Opinions?

5K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  jimd1050 
#1 ·
Ok long story short I would like the extra power/mpg of a tuner but I need to keep my DPF (read, warranty) I know I know a tuner may void my warranty (read, if tuner is detected or causes damage, depending on dealer) So what tuner will be least detectable when removed but be able to keep my DPF. This may be a dumb question but can I use a dpf delete tuner and basically just pretend my dpf isn't there?:dunno: Thanks in advance
 
#2 ·
Banks 6 Gun with the switch! It's a piggy back system. It plugs into the pcm and turbo sensor and modifies what the computer thinks it's seeing. So there is no flashing of the pcm. Any other tuner flashes the pcm so might as well go all out. There is a guy on here selling one. I sold mine last week. I loved it but I was sick of watching "Cleaning Exhaust". New owner told me via ebay he was real impressed with the added power. I was too until I got the mini maxx. But Banks is safest bet for warranty safe. Just my $0.02.
 
#3 ·
If your looking for better fuel mileage and want to retain your DPF, good luck. It's not worh the money inmy opinion. The best thing to do is purchase a tuner that does both. That way, down the road when you realize your fuel mileage still sucks, you can order a delete pipe and intake and see what you had been missing. Just my $.02....
 
#4 ·
Hey 44 I understand. Been there did that! If you feel like you want to start off adding power and not worrying about the warranty then Banks is the way to go. Maybe you'll be happy with the banks. I was for 5 months. However there are many that stay happy. I never took mine out of position 6 so I forgot how slow the truck was stock. After i pulled the banks out and sold it, I drove the truck for week before the mini came in. I had forgotten how much power it added. I had a 01 duramax line up the day after I pulled the banks and he beat me. My brother in law was riding with me and he said man the banks really did make a difference. And I did get better mileage couple mpg's.

Everyone complemented the power added by the banks. Now everyone is saying how wicked my truck is with the H&S mini maxx.

Decide what you want to do and do whats right for you. Don't let someone talk you into something like a tuner if your not ready. You flash that pcm you might as well do it all cause it no longer matters...Sometimes we just have to waste that money. But if you do it right, sit and watch, you'll find a good deal. My grandfather always says you make your money when you buy.

I bought my banks ram air and 6 gun at the same time and paid like $7-800. Pretty good deal since they are like a $1000 purchased seperatly. You can also find em used. as stated before there was a guy on here with one for sale. I sold mine through ebay.

Anyway for what it's worth.
 
#5 ·
Banks is a great option if you plan on always keeping your DPF. However, people more often than not end up pulling at at some point. That being said, I suggest looking at H&S tuners. You cna run them with or without the DPF.

You cant run a delete tuner and pretend its not there. Your DPF will clog up since it will not longer go into regeneration mode and that is very bad.
 
#6 ·
Ya I hear ya guy I do. Im only gonna keep the dpf for about 22000 more miles which for me will be about a year and a half. So I take it the h&s reflashes the ecu? And I take it that is easily detected by the dealer if I were to need any warranty work? Assuming I returned it to stock. I was looking hard at the h&s as it can do both dpf and dpf delete. Are there any others that can do both? Thanks again guys.
 
#7 · (Edited)
The Spartan Phalanx can do both. :thumb:

If you would like any information on the tuner, feel free to PM or email me.

jeff@spartandieseltech.com
 
#8 ·
And that's fine if it doesn't get better mpg untill I delete the dpf.
 
#11 ·
It's all about money and options.

What options you want. If your going to eventually want to run big power minus dpf/doc you really need something with a screen so you can watch the gauges.

I wanted the ability to set safety parameters to protect the truck. Spartan, Mini and Black all do that.

One of the big things I wanted was shift on the fly. I can change from no power upto the top 250. Mini Maxx and Black Maxx do this.

Then you have to decide how big of a screen you want. I had read that several people were happy with the mini maxx, it was most cost effective. I wear glasses as my eyesight sucks but i can read the mini maxx just fine even without glasses. I don't drive without my glasses yet i can pass the state eye exam! Thats really scary...
I think Spartan has the biggest screen, best graphics, and animation if thats your number 1 concern. I know with some people it is.

Then do you want the ability to get tunes from some of the other custom tuners like kem or innovative? SCT livewire, Black Maxx, Mini Maxx and I am sure there are others. However the livewire is just a tuner with no safety settings and no screen.

Another thing to consider is value of the product when you sell. Every one sells their stuff at one point. I think out of the screened tuners the mini maxx at this time is holding the highest resale.

Just my $0.02
 
#12 ·
I installed a Livewire with a DPF On custom tune on a 2010 KR Crew Cab last week. Hand calculated mileage stock was 11.4mpg over the winter.

Tuned, he's now hand calculated at 13.8mpg. The Lie-o-meter did say 12.8 and now it says 16.1.

So, DPF On tuning does work, if driven with a light foot. Winterized fuel and long idle times drop winter mileage significantly. Also, driving the truck hard will cause more regens with a high power tune. Moderation and it works very well.
 
#13 ·
Thats great confirmed information. I knew you could get better mileage even with the dpf on. With the dpf off it's gonna be better with less restriction.

I got 1-2mpg better with the Banks. Naturally a custom dpf on tune will work better.
 
#14 ·
I've been running the Banks since it first came out, beta testing it before everyone else was even allowed to buy it. With a 6in lift and 35inx12.5in tires, I get 13-14 driving in So. Calif. City/Hwy use. I avg around 18-19 if it's just Hwy station to station and 10-11 when it's just City driving. All numbers are hand calculated. I would probably have even better numbers if I had smaller tires and a smaller lift.

Regens are around 500+/- miles rather consistently, this last one was a 498mi, so I can definitely say in my opinion that its a DPF friendly tuner.

As others have mentioned, you can see improvements with the DPF in place, but they won't be as high as when removing the DPF due to the restrictions and of course the regen process itself.
 
#17 ·
Banks/DPF>DPF Deleted>Banks/DPF


To back up what Shaun said, I also Beta tested with Shaun, Scott (Senix) and a few others. The Banks SixGun is an excellent option if you want to stay Warranty Safe and LEGAL. Level Six will sit you back in your seat - I was very impressed. However, I was seduced by the Dark Side, sold my Banks and bought a Delete Kit with an SCT Tuner. I ran this way for almost 2 years and had a blast - the Horsepower and torque was incredible.

Unfortunately, the State of Massachusetts RMV requires that I pass an annual inspection that includes emissions testing. In February of 2010, I removed the Delete Kit, tuned back to stock (which was corrupted and cost me $100 to have Ford Re-Flash the truck) and got it inspected. I tried to leave it that way but the loss of the fun stuff and mileage again seduced me - back on went the delete kit and tunes! Guess what - it's February 2011! About two weeks ago, off came the Delete Kit, on went the DPF and stock tune (which again was a problem, only worse - I had to spend another $100 for a Ford Re-Flash but I had already driven it about 350 miles thinking the stock tune was O.K. and it killed the DPF!!!) I had to have the DPF replaced, the PCM cleared and a fresh stock tune loaded and then it passed inspection. I was without my truck for 8 days!

I sold the SCT, threw the DPF delete pipes out back and am about to order another Banks SixGun with their new IQ Display (check the IQ out 44magnum) which I should have just stayed with in the first place! Take it for what it's worth but in my opinion, it's too much work to change back and forth for inspection, warranty work, etc. and not worth the risk of getting caught and paying a large fine!
 
#15 ·
Smotrs that's pretty good, im getting 14-15 mix completly stock with 275/65-20. Are your numbers corrected for the taller tires? Now im curious about the regen I have had my truck for about 1500 miles and I have never had it regen? How do I know when its happening? Whats normal? Thanks
 
#16 ·
44, yes, my truck was recalibrated for the tire size, so my mileage is pretty accurate as far as that goes.

The first time around I remember it took quite a while before I saw my first regen. It could also have gone into regen on you but you may not have noticed it flash the message. I had a recent flash at the dealer on my truck and did not see the message flash the last couple times it regen'd on me nor is there a message in the display center when you cycle through. So the only way I can tell now is by monitoring the EGT temperatures, the sound of the engine and my Banks iQ display.

Regen's should appear every 300-600 miles according to Ford, though some users have reported 100-150 and dealers tell them that's normal which it's not.
 
#18 ·
To back up what Shaun said, I also Beta tested with Shaun, Scott (Senix) and a few others. The Banks SixGun is an excellent option if you want to stay Warranty Safe and LEGAL. Level Six will sit you back in your seat - I was very impressed. However, I was seduced by the Dark Side, sold my Banks and bought a Delete Kit with an SCT Tuner. I ran this way for almost 2 years and had a blast - the Horsepower and torque was incredible.

Unfortunately, the State of Massachusetts RMV requires that I pass an annual inspection that includes emissions testing. In February of 2010, I removed the Delete Kit, tuned back to stock (which was corrupted and cost me $100 to have Ford Re-Flash the truck) and got it inspected. I tried to leave it that way but the loss of the fun stuff and mileage again seduced me - back on went the delete kit and tunes! Guess what - it's February 2011! About two weeks ago, off came the Delete Kit, on went the DPF and stock tune (which again was a problem, only worse - I had to spend another $100 for a Ford Re-Flash but I had already driven it about 350 miles thinking the stock tune was O.K. and it killed the DPF!!!) I had to have the DPF replaced, the PCM cleared and a fresh stock tune loaded and then it passed inspection. I was without my truck for 8 days!

I sold the SCT, threw the DPF delete pipes out back and am about to order another Banks SixGun with their new IQ Display (check the IQ out 44magnum) which I should have just stayed with in the first place! Take it for what it's worth but in my opinion, it's too much work to change back and forth for inspection, warranty work, etc. and not worth the risk of getting caught and paying a large fine!
I really want to get some more power out of my 6.4 but I don't want to mess with removing the DPF or chance voiding my warranty. Have either of you had motor or transmission warranty work done after removing the Banks and not have the dealer notice anything? Also can a factory motorcraft air filter be used or is an aftermarket filter needed? Does the Banks eliminate any of the turbo lag, thats one of my biggest complaints with the 6.4 is how hard I have to push the go pedal. What are the cons of the Banks Six gun? Thanks and sorry for all the questions.
 
#19 ·
The Six-Gun will remove some of the lag but not all. To remove the lag you have to more fuel then normal right off idle. The extra fuel berts rid of the lag but also results in a bit of smoke right off idle as well. Banks promotes the Six-Gun as being the cleanest and most DPF friendly tuner available. As such, you will never be able to remove the lag completely.

I've had my truck in for several flashes and some minor warranty work, each time I have removed the Six-Gun prior to the visit without any issues from the dealers I've used. Since the Six-Gun plugs in after the PCM, nothing is actually written back to the computer. Does this mean it's 100% undetectable? No, it just makes it harder to find. It simply means they have to look for other signs of tuning.

You can use the factory site filter without problem. But to get the most from your tuner you will want to upgrade to another. The stock CAI flows plenty of air for the stock motor. But when you add a tuner, the truck begins to demand more sure flow to go with the new power addition. With out the added air flow your in a sense starving the truck when you do get on it.

As far as cons go, the biggest complaints are that it doesn't remove the DPF and cost. Cost with iQ is about $1k+ and allot of people believe if your gonna spend that much, why not get a tuner that will remove the DPF.

Sent using my HTC EVO.
 
#20 ·
The longer you have the truck the more in tune you will be with it. I knew exactly when the truck went into clean cycle. If it didn't flash on the screen you can go to the system check on the odo and if it's cleaning it will show it as the last item.

If it's in clean mode you will notice a loss of power, the truck sounds different, if your driving and happen to stop while its in clean mode the truck acts like your reving at idle with your foot on the brake, it may smoke some at idle, pretty much a pain in the ***. I was seeing cleaning exhaust every 150 miles. With and without the banks on.

And Smotrs pretty much nailed anything I have to say. Smotrs and I are traveling down the same road. I am in the first year and have gone from banks to H&S. I am thinking that here all I have to pass is a obdii plug in so if thats the case I shouldn't have to install the dpf unless there is an issue.

And yea I am not looking forward to ever having to do that!
 
#21 ·
OBDII Test still fails...

...I was seeing cleaning exhaust every 150 miles. With and without the banks on.
I am only getting 150 to 250 between Regens but we are still running winter diesel fuel... hopefully, that'll change shortly! :dunno:

...I am thinking that here all I have to pass is a obdii plug in so if thats the case I shouldn't have to install the dpf unless there is an issue...
Don't think for a minute that gets you out of the woods! We tested my truck with the "Delete" and "SCT Tuner" before I went "back to stock" in 2010 and 2011. Both times, the OBDII Test yielded a "Catalyst Not Ready" error and an "EGR Not Ready" error - that translates to "FAILED" and a State Rejection Sticker!!! :doh:

BTW, I am installing my Banks SixGun/IQ this weekend... now the truck and I have come "Full Circle" I guess! From "Banks SixGun" to "SCT/DPF On" to "SCT/Deleted" now back to "SixGun"!
 
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