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Old 06-10-2010, 07:12 PM
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Arrow Update on converter lock up problem

Ok here it goes.
My converter stopped locking, then Mick helped us load new updates. We installed 210hp tow tune and the converter locked up. We then installed 250hp tune and it worked fine.
Note when the first problem appeared no codes poped up. Then the trans stopped locking up and this time codes appeared.
Then speed sensor and communication with ECM/ PCM.
Nothing else was changed.
I cleared the codes and know new codes appeared.
If the tuner was commanding the converter to lock up and it did not. Codes would be thrown. Right?
This is why i think the tuner is not commanding the converter to lockup.

So what is causing this process to stop.
I need to know what priorities and parameters spartan uses that must be met and what sequence. So i can go through a process of elimination to figure out which parameter is failing to be met stopping the spartan from completing the process and commanding lock up.
If it was an internal trans problem hard codes would be thrown.
If i am close but a little off course please explain.
I am just trying to get my converter to lock hard early and stay there.
Thanks C.J.::confused
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:08 AM
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Bump for ya....no spartan guys willing to help out??
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:17 AM
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Im no expert, but try towhaul and see if the converter locks up then. Spartan may be shutting down the diagnostic circuit that reads slippage in the converter, therefor no codes. Perhaps the clutch's in the converter are roasted?
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:27 AM
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I wonder if you can find a good enough Ford tech that can tell you what is demanded by the VB to lock the converter. Try your dealership and talk to the most senior diesel tech, he might be able to help you.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:43 AM
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I guess the first thing is to determine if the problem is electrical or mechanical. You need to see if the computer is commanding lockup list. I know we talked briefly about your issue and at that time there was some concern about you/your mechanic having put the Spartan tunes designed for a stock tcm in the truck while the Spartan TCM was still installed. Did you get that straightened out with Spartan first? What are you running for a converter? Is it a Suncoast and is it a actual 8 stud 6.4 or 6 stud 6.0 unit? Have you pulling the tranny out and checked the sealing ring on the pump to make sure that didn't get pushed out? Are you running a stock flex plate or flywheel? To answer the question about codes being set if the computer commanded lockup and it didn't lockup, the computer should be looking for rpm or input shaft speed to drop. Usually if this doesn't occur a code would be set for slip, gear ratio error or something along those lines.

Last edited by powerstroker67; 06-11-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:47 AM
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Try checking the connector at the very back of the trans bellhousing (output shaft speed sensor). If the wires are intact, chances are you need to replace that sensor.

An intermittent or lost signal will cause the trans to stop lockup completely. All of our tunes (even the original stock one) will allow for lockup unless something is faulty.

Ford's IDS tool can scan a raw signal of the OSS to see if the sensor is intermittent or failed.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstroker67 View Post
I guess the first thing is to determine if the problem is electrical or mechanical. You need to see if the computer is commanding lockup list. I know we talked briefly about your issue and at that time there was some concern about you/your mechanic having put the Spartan tunes designed for a stock tcm in the truck while the Spartan TCM was still installed. Did you get that straightened out with Spartan first? What are you running for a converter? Is it a Suncoast and is it a actual 8 stud 6.4 or 6 stud 6.0 unit? Have you pulling the tranny out and checked the sealing ring on the pump to make sure that didn't get pushed out? Are you running a stock flex plate or flywheel? To answer the question about codes being set if the computer commanded lockup and it didn't lockup, the computer should be looking for rpm or input shaft speed to drop. Usually if this doesn't occur a code would be set for slip, gear ratio error or something along those lines.
The issue with spartan tcm was that my mechanic here installed tcm but not sd card with tunes. We do not believe the trans has any internal issues so far.
The converter is custom from gene Goering, Three disk lockup with bungs instead of studs. Flex plate or flywheel is billet ats and we used six bolt design.
Just re installed 210 tune to see if converter locked it did not lock. It did throw another communication PCM/TCM code. I think it happens right away. Then i clear it and it dosnt show back up. No codes for trans slip...
Thanks C.J.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanDieselTech View Post
Try checking the connector at the very back of the trans bellhousing (output shaft speed sensor). If the wires are intact, chances are you need to replace that sensor.

An intermittent or lost signal will cause the trans to stop lockup completely. All of our tunes (even the original stock one) will allow for lockup unless something is faulty.

Ford's IDS tool can scan a raw signal of the OSS to see if the sensor is intermittent or failed.
Matt when you say this sensor stops lockup completely i should say it locks eventually after reving and reving and i back off the throttle and get back in it.
I talked with mick about installing the stock tune and then use a scan tool (not fords) to look at parameters...
I then remembered i may not be able to because i have dpf and complete egr deletes with wastegates.
I will look into sensor..
Anymore thoughts mick.
Thanks for your help matt I appreciate it.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by promodracer View Post
The issue with spartan tcm was that my mechanic here installed tcm but not sd card with tunes. We do not believe the trans has any internal issues so far.
The converter is custom from gene Goering, Three disk lockup with bungs instead of studs. Flex plate or flywheel is billet ats and we used six bolt design.
Just re installed 210 tune to see if converter locked it did not lock. It did throw another communication PCM/TCM code. I think it happens right away. Then i clear it and it dosnt show back up. No codes for trans slip...
Thanks C.J.
Reason I asked is the height inside the converter to hold the sealing ring for lockup is very close. If the converter is slightly shallow in the tranny it will have lockup until the pressure pushes the ring out causing a fluid leak. Sounds like your running a 6.0 style converter and flexplate and since there is a height difference between a 6.0 5r110 converter and 6.4 5r110 converter it could be that simple. It took Ron/Suncoast and I a few shots at getting this right back in 2007, but now Suncoast has it spot on with there 8 lug 5R110 converter for these 6.4 trucks. I'd start by pulling the tranny and checking converter,flex plate and sealing ring for depth issues.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by promodracer View Post
The issue with spartan tcm was that my mechanic here installed tcm but not sd card with tunes. We do not believe the trans has any internal issues so far.
The converter is custom from gene Goering, Three disk lockup with bungs instead of studs. Flex plate or flywheel is billet ats and we used six bolt design.
Just re installed 210 tune to see if converter locked it did not lock. It did throw another communication PCM/TCM code. I think it happens right away. Then i clear it and it dosnt show back up. No codes for trans slip...
Thanks C.J.
CJ, if that ATS flywheel is a 6-lug, chances are it is balanced for the 6.0 engine. You need to verify this immediately with ATS- because if so, it is doing some serious engine damage every time you rev it out- the counterbalancing between the two engines is very different.
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