Bds carrier bearing drop looks good - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:04 AM
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Bds carrier bearing drop looks good

Well been playing around the last few months with pion angles and drive shaft angles. Had a vibe at start been unable to fix it. So before I drop 1000 on a cv drive shaft thought I take a 50.00 gamble and it looks goodThe drop is 3" I thought that was to much because I never went passed 2"-2.25" but I was wrong. 6" block at 5*, 1.75" block, and 2" add-a-leafs toatl of 9.75 in lift in the rear and so far no vibe keeping my fingers crossed. Just a little info that may help somebody out with the shutter.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:33 AM
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Have you measured your angles? Especially the tcase ujoint? Just curious as to how they came out.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:42 AM
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Yes I even found the tsb on line from ford measured all my angles. One good point I was told from Jesse at high angle drive lines is he told me no matter what drive shft I go with in a two piece that my rear shaft needs to be 2* less then my pinon. so my pinon is at 9*-10* and now my rear shaft is at 7*-8*. I didn't measure my frist section but I know its more then 13* but if you want to know let me know and I'll get it over the weekend. Another thing dinone I think thats his name has a one piece and told me to call high angle drive line and his truck is 08 but Jesse told me he has not made a 1piece for 08 cc shortbed in at least 8 years. I dodn't know but try to get your rear section of the drive shaft 2* less then your pinon
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:48 AM
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All right just crawled out in the rain looks like my 1st section from the t-case to the carrier is 14* and from my carrier to pinon 8.5-9* and pinon 10*
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:26 PM
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Thank you for posting those numbers (and crawling under there in the rain)!

I think I'm reading this right, but don't fully understand how you have some of these numbers. Are they the angle through the ujoint or the angle of the part in relation to the ground? You have to subtract from one side of a ujoint to the other, to get that joints angle. It's not the actual tube angles that you want, in the end.

For example, tcase joint (which is hard because you have to get the angle finder on the tcase flange), measure the flange, then measure the forward shaft, and subtract to get the ujoint angle at the tcase. (So if your tcase flange is down at 6*, and the driveshaft is down at 10*, then the tcase angle is 4*).

Then for the center (the easiest angle to find), you measure the rear shaft and subtract the forward shaft from it. Finally for the pinion joint, measure the rear shaft and subtract the pinion flange angle.

Using that method, I think I'm somewhere around 4.5* downward at tcase, 3* downward at center, & 2* UP at the pinion joint.

Are you saying that the rear shaft is only at 8.5-9* and the pinion is actually steeper at 10*? That would put your pinion at say 1-1.5* degree DOWN instead of the usual upward angle there?

In relation to the ground, it sounds like you are saying the forward shaft is actually steeper than the rearward shaft... meaning... you dropped the carrier below the point of a straight shot. Is that correct?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

Last edited by ZeroOne; 10-16-2009 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 10-17-2009, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroOne View Post
Thank you for posting those numbers (and crawling under there in the rain)!

I think I'm reading this right, but don't fully understand how you have some of these numbers. Are they the angle through the ujoint or the angle of the part in relation to the ground? You have to subtract from one side of a ujoint to the other, to get that joints angle. It's not the actual tube angles that you want, in the end.

For example, tcase joint (which is hard because you have to get the angle finder on the tcase flange), measure the flange, then measure the forward shaft, and subtract to get the ujoint angle at the tcase. (So if your tcase flange is down at 6*, and the driveshaft is down at 10*, then the tcase angle is 4*).

Then for the center (the easiest angle to find), you measure the rear shaft and subtract the forward shaft from it. Finally for the pinion joint, measure the rear shaft and subtract the pinion flange angle.

Using that method, I think I'm somewhere around 4.5* downward at tcase, 3* downward at center, & 2* UP at the pinion joint.

Are you saying that the rear shaft is only at 8.5-9* and the pinion is actually steeper at 10*? That would put your pinion at say 1-1.5* degree DOWN instead of the usual upward angle there?

In relation to the ground, it sounds like you are saying the forward shaft is actually steeper than the rearward shaft... meaning... you dropped the carrier below the point of a straight shot. Is that correct?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.
Yes the forward shaft is dropped more then the straight shot I never took all shafts apart so maybe my angles are general I took one of the starter the ford tsb said use that. Now I'm home and my angles are at my office. Then the tsb said take the next measurement off the 1 st u joint but I do not have the tool that connects to u joint itself as ford specs, so I just used the shaft and that read 14* (14-6=8*) then the next shaft is 8.5* (14-8.5=3.5*) and I measured my pinon from on the left side of the pumpkin there is a ledge and got 10*(8.5-10=1.5 negtive so my pinon is steeper then the drive shaft. Now Ford says all the angles should be with in 3* of each other so before thats what I was trying to meet. With the shims (1st kit) I was running 7-1/4" shims which put all my angles with in 3* and my rear shaft was reading 10* and was mathcing my pinon and was still vibeing. So then I called jessie and he said even if I buy his cv 2 piece drive shaft I could still get a take off vibe, and if so then I would need to shim the pinion. He said the pinion needs to 2* steeper then your rear section, or drive shaft 2* less example pinon 10 then rear shaft 8*. A few weeks ago I seen someone on here with 8" bds lift so I pm him and ask if he had a shutter at take off and he said no. So I wanted to add the 1.75 stock block on top of my 6" block and needed new u bolts so I ordered them from bds and figured I try there drop bracket. So Yesterday when I opened the box I was shocked to see the bracket was going to drop it 3" so I put in on and heres where we are and it does the same idea as to what jessie said the pinon is a steeper angle the rear section is less. Now I may not be taking my angles from the right spot but thats where I read them from. I hope this helps somewhat.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palady6.4 View Post
Yes the forward shaft is dropped more then the straight shot I never took all shafts apart so maybe my angles are general I took one of the starter the ford tsb said use that. Now I'm home and my angles are at my office. Then the tsb said take the next measurement off the 1 st u joint but I do not have the tool that connects to u joint itself as ford specs, so I just used the shaft and that read 14* (14-6=8*) then the next shaft is 8.5* (14-8.5=3.5*) and I measured my pinon from on the left side of the pumpkin there is a ledge and got 10*(8.5-10=1.5 negtive so my pinon is steeper then the drive shaft. Now Ford says all the angles should be with in 3* of each other so before thats what I was trying to meet. With the shims (1st kit) I was running 7-1/4" shims which put all my angles with in 3* and my rear shaft was reading 10* and was mathcing my pinon and was still vibeing. So then I called jessie and he said even if I buy his cv 2 piece drive shaft I could still get a take off vibe, and if so then I would need to shim the pinion. He said the pinion needs to 2* steeper then your rear section, or drive shaft 2* less example pinon 10 then rear shaft 8*. A few weeks ago I seen someone on here with 8" bds lift so I pm him and ask if he had a shutter at take off and he said no. So I wanted to add the 1.75 stock block on top of my 6" block and needed new u bolts so I ordered them from bds and figured I try there drop bracket. So Yesterday when I opened the box I was shocked to see the bracket was going to drop it 3" so I put in on and heres where we are and it does the same idea as to what jessie said the pinon is a steeper angle the rear section is less. Now I may not be taking my angles from the right spot but thats where I read them from. I hope this helps somewhat.
That is very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to explain it further.

I am somewhat surprised that the pinion angle is negative (arches overhand instead of underhand), the first driveshaft is steeper than the second, the center joint bends underhand instead of over, and that actually works! Must have one hell of an angle at the t-case ujoint though. Wish I'd had the driveshaft made with a CV there as well, to handle that angle.

Almost everything I've ever read says not to go over 4* or so through a ujoint for wear reasons, and the axle joint should always be positive so when you hit the gas and the axle wraps upward slightly, it puts that joint in a straight line.

Can't argue with results though. Just kinda throws a wrench in everything written in the Dana/Spicer PDF's. If it ever stops raining here, I'm going to give this a shot! Thanks for all of the info!
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2009, 09:36 AM
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I read this and decided to try 2.75" drop with the extra shims I had laying around. I was at 2.25". I didn't measure any angles with the new drop and can't remember what they were before. I did have slight take off vibes and a light vibe at around 25 mph. With the 2.75" drop I have virtually no take off vibe and no vibe at 25 mph. I only got it up to highway speed for a bit but seems like there may be a slight vibration when I let off the throttle about 65 mph. Once I get out of town and on the interstate I will report more.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:55 AM
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The more I think about it, the more I worry about the transfer case ujoint with this much drop. 3* optimal, and 5* max for our RPM. (3,500rpm driveshaft speed, engine 2485rpm, highway) The tcase joint is probably around 9-10* with that much drop. It will cut its life in half or more.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrod80 View Post
I read this and decided to try 2.75" drop with the extra shims I had laying around. I was at 2.25". I didn't measure any angles with the new drop and can't remember what they were before. I did have slight take off vibes and a light vibe at around 25 mph. With the 2.75" drop I have virtually no take off vibe and no vibe at 25 mph. I only got it up to highway speed for a bit but seems like there may be a slight vibration when I let off the throttle about 65 mph. Once I get out of town and on the interstate I will report more.
Where did you get your shims? I'm thinking of removing my OUO drop kit (since I have a double cardan in the center) and trying to shim 1/4" to 1/2". My angles are 2.5 tcase, 8 double cardan center, 4 pinion with NO drop. I want to try to balance the 2.5 and 4, while reducing some of the 8 at the center, but my drop wont allow that minimal of a change. My thinking is, if i can balance the tcase and pinon, the double cardan will self-cancel and it will all be perfect. (It's not bad at all now, but its just interesting to try new things.)
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