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HAAAAAARD start under 60*F

1K views 7 replies 2 participants last post by  SilverSupraT 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello, Everyone!

I'm going to attempt to make this post as concise as possible but I'm afraid it's still going to be a diatribe... Thank you, in advance, to anyone willing to read and respond! Also, I've scoured the internet to get to where I am so it's not like I haven't tried but I very well could have missed something critical, please enlighten me with a link if you have one :)

Cliffs Notes: Hard start under 60*F, great starts above 70*F. Replaced common problem things (and some not common problem things), all numbers seem to check out. HPO system gets to pressure easily, up to 3994 PSI at WOT, new FICM and relay from FICMrepair.com. PCM, ICP and engine harness are practically the only things that have NOT been replaced or repaired.

Truck specs:
2005
F350
6.0L
auto transmission
crew cab
Lariet
FX4
long box
currently 160k miles (bought @ 96k)
8" suspension lift
37x11.5 tires
22" wheels
dual front stabilizer shocks

History and modification timeline:

When I bought the truck it was completely stock but had a label on the radiator support that Ford had reflashed the PCM and FICM in 2008. I drove the truck with regular maintenance (oil changes at 5k intervals. Always Motorcraft 15-40 and Ford filters) up until 155k miles when it started showing signs of a head gasket problem (puking from degas tank when pulling long, steep hills at highway speeds). I had expected this from the day I bought the rig and was prepared to do what I considered a basic bulletproofing job.

Here's the order and results of each stage as I tried to remedy the problem:

Attempt #1:
EGR delete
coolant flush
Mishimoto coolant fixture setup - last ditch effort to avoid a full bulletproof but didn't help the spikes in coolant temps or the degas puking

Within a month after doing this I also had an alternator fail. I replaced it with an O'reilly remanned one (super regret this after my recent experiences with their starters but that's a story for another day...) and put in 2 new 850 CCA Interstate batteries from Costco

Attempt #2:
Pulled cab
Pulled heads, verified flatness was within spec
Injectors tested, reinstalled with new crush washers and o-rings
Upgraded head gaskets
ARP head studs
BPD water pump
blue spring upgrade
STC fitting upgrade
Upgraded standpipes and dummy plugs
New IPR screen (old one did have a broken "leg". Wasn't able to locate broken piece but cleaned passages out with air and brakleen)
Upgraded oil cooler with new drain screen
Motorcraft glow plugs
New Ford glow plug harnesses
Everything went back together with new gaskets and o-rings

Initial start was difficult. I figured that I didn't fully purge the air out of the HPO system. I repurged the system out of the ICP port then gave the intake a shot of carb clean and got it to start.

For 3 months it ran great (August thru November). The crank time as a bit longer (~2+ seconds) than it ever was before (<1 second). Then winter hit and the crank times got progressively longer as it got colder until I couldn't get it to start. Previous winters, I never had problems starting in cold weather, even at 0*F I could have it start without the block heater (obviously I avoided this situation as much as possible though!).

Checked codes with Innova scan tool - none.

Checked the glow plugs, through the harnesses, and everything was .6-.8 ohms, individually. I checked the current draw for the system and it was ~43A so I replaced the GPCM which got it back to 80A draw. Double checked and cleaned the connections off the battery to the GPCM at that time as well.

Still no start with 10*F ECT. Still no codes.

Checked FICM voltage and got 48-49VDC before, during and after cranking.

Checked HPO system at the ICP port with a mechanical gauge. Hit 900 PSI within a couple revolutions of the starter and it would top out at 2600 PSI at 200 RPM.

Replaced cam position (CMP) and crank position (CKP) sensors and still no change (I didn't have a way to check sync at this point). No change to start condition.

Bought a Scan Gauge II and it showed that my FICM voltage was starting at 32v but would increase to 48v. I confirmed this by performing the same check with my DMM as before. During crank I was getting ICP @ 780, ICV @ 0.76v, SYC = 1

Replaced FICM amplifier and FICM harness connectors because the locking tabs were broken (had been that way since I bought the truck). This fixed the voltage problem but it still would not start until after ~15 seconds of cranking @ 40* EOT. I didn't make a habit of doing this for obvious reasons.

Took advantage of the truck finally running (it wasn't running for over a month due to cold weather) to run the KOER scan - no codes, still. Once the EOT was above 80*F I was able to restart it within 1 second of cranking, regardless of rest time.

When running cold, readings were ICP ~1400, ICV 1.70, IPR 41.0. I let it run until warmed up but the ICP wouldn't drop below 1000. This seemed too high to me and I was suspecting the IPR for the hard start, potentially, so I used it as an excuse to install a new IPR.

Got it running again at about 40*F EOT with 15 seconds of cranking. This time when it was warm the ICP leveled out at 580 and the IPR @ 23.0. Mild smoke during warm up. Drove it and had a good puff of black smoke when under load but it cleared up quickly, probably from all of the cranking with no start... On subsequent starts, as low as 100*F EOT it starts within less than 2 seconds which is similar to pre-bulletproofing.

Let it sit for 10 hours in 30*F weather and EOT got to 55F (in garage). Starting again took 3 attempts at 15 seconds each, until TBC fault. During the crank it would act like it was trying to fire on 3 cylinders, in a row, then nothing, then the same 3 cylinders again, and so on. Each time it hit the 3-cylinder part of the revolution the RPMS would go up a bit more until it hit ~1k RPMs then it would fire and run perfectly, no stumbling. Lots of dark gray smoke during cranking but nice and clean once it was running.

***********************************************************
This might be a tangent but it could be useful in diagnosis (?)

On a warm day, I got the truck running and decided to do some errands while I had the truck to haul things. Was driving around for a couple of hours and things were all good. Would start up great because the engine was warm, plenty of power, good fuel mileage, and smooth running. Then I was slowing down for a stop light and it died as though I had turned the key off. SGII showed 0 PSI on the ICP during cranking... Towed it home and performed the air test and heard escapement on the passenger side. Pulled the valve cover, heard air from the rear of the HPO rail, pulled the standpipe and found that the o-ring at the seam between the upper and lower standpipe had failed (one of the o-rings not backed by the nylon washer). When I installed these I put them in as they arrived, assembled. So there's a chance that it was damaged beforehand or not sufficiently lubricated and when things got torqued down maybe it spun and tore.

Replaced the standpipe on the passenger side, performed the air test before I put it back together and then again after it was back together, just to be sure! Passed the 100PSI air check. No change to the starting conditions that previously existed, however, but the HPO pressure was above zero but only got to 350 PSI, both on the ICP reading and mechanical gauge. Found that I wasn't getting 12v to my IPR from the PCM. Filleted the harness to discover the wire had chaffed, nearly through the wire, underneath the ABS manifold... restored the wire, put it all back together and was getting 1500 PSI from the HPO system again, yay! Still no improvement to the start, unfortunately.

***********************************************************

Talked with experienced Ford tech and he said "plug in the block heater and see what happens." I did that and, like before when it was warmed up, started immediately. So he suggested replacing the FICM. I didn't really see the point if the voltages were reading correctly but I was really running out of options so I used it as an excuse to get a programmed FICM from FICMrepair.com. Installed their FICM and FICM relay but nothing has changed...

Found a thread saying that their starter was causing a sync problem. I wasn't seeing an issue with the sync reading on the SGII but I thought "why the hell not?" so I replaced the starter, too. Still in the same boat except that the starter is garbage, grinds half of the time, and I'm going to take it back lol.

The only common thing that I can gather is that if the EOT/ECT is over 70*F it will start perfectly. If the EOT/ECT is under 60*F it doesn't want to start well at all.

The only parts that I haven't replaced are the ICP sensor (because it wasn't contaminated with oil and gave readings matching my mechanical gauge), engine wire harness, and PCM. Batteries and alternator both bench test "good" but I don't really like how much voltage drop I see on the batteries (~.5v) so I'm going to get new ones, just to be sure. Double checked and re-cleaned the grounds but it really doesn't seem like they could have been the problem as they were already clean and tightly attached.

Here is a table of numbers I gathered when I tried to start it with EOT @ 51*F after sitting overnight:

Here are the numbers when it is cold and has a hard start (I tried to make the table as readable as possible...):

Engine Temp at test start 51*F

.. __________ | - KOEO - | Cranking | Running-COLD | Running-HOT |
EOT ________ | --- 51 -.. | --- 51 ---| ------ 75 ------ | ----- 189 ---- |
VLT..________ | -- 12.2-- | -- 12 ----| --12.6 – 12.9 - | ---- 13.9 -----|
RPM....______ | ---- 0 --- | ---249---| ----- 882 ------ | ----- 690 ---- |
ICV..________ | -- 0.23 --| ---0.25 - | -----1.11 ----...| ----- 0.86 ----|
ICP..________ | ---- 0 ----| --1573 --| ----- 823 ----...| ------585 ---..|
IPR_________ | ---14.8--.| ---50 .....|------27.7---.....| -----22.2 ......|
FMP_________| 48.5 – 49| -- 48.5 ...| ---48 – 48.5-...| ------ 49 -----|
FLP..________ | 11.5 – 12| 11 – 11.5| ------12 .-------| -----13.5---...|
SYC (FICM).__ | ---- 0---..| ----1-----| --------1--------| -------1-------|
SYC (CMP/CKP)| ---..0 ---.| ----1-----| --------1--------| -------1-------|
CVI_________ | ---..5 ---.| ----5-----| --------5--------| -------5-------|
MFD_________| ---. 0 ---.| --35.8-...| --------13----...| ------7.5----..|
VFD_______....| ---. 0 ---.| --41.9-...| ------15.8----...| ------9.5----..|

Thank again!

Blake
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Here's your table:




_______________
Edited to add...

Having looked at the data, there is something not right about your ICP pressure and voltage during cranking. I will attach the data sheet for the ICP sensor showing voltage output vs pressure.

All of the other conditions seem fine.
 

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#3 ·
Here's your table:
_______________
Edited to add...

Having looked at the data, there is something not right about your ICP pressure and voltage during cranking. I will attach the data sheet for the ICP sensor showing voltage output vs pressure.

All of the other conditions seem fine.
Thanks for outputting the table. I thought about putting in an image but I thought I could manage the HTML (apparently it's unavailable in the forum...)

What's not right about the ICV/ICP? Too high pressure? ICV too low? Too high pressure with the .25v reading?

I've created a tee so that I can read my mechanical gauge simultaneously with the ICP and the readings match so I don't think the sensor is bad. Now, the result of what it's reading and what the system is allowing the IPR to do, I could understand that potentially being a problem, but I don't know what it is or what could be causing it.
 
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