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ECT and EOT Delta changed after water pump repair?

5K views 33 replies 8 participants last post by  jbenoit28 
#1 ·
I've been monitoring my temps with my Edge CTS since I got the truck. I've done the usual bullletproofing sans the studs. I still have a EGR, but it's the Bulletproof Diesel version. I'm also running the ELC with a bypass filter not the Ford Gold.

For the last month I've been without my CTS as it was being repaired. At the same time the engine sprung a couple of leaks. I ended up getting the Water Pump replaced and a heater hose. I also had them flush the coolant out and replace with more ELC, and changed the filter. Truck has 171,000 miles. They also fixed a cracked fan shroud.

Once I had the truck back and got my CTS back I noticed the Delta between the temps was higher than normal. Running around town I was seeing 10 to 14 degree spreads with a 40 minute drive in town. On the interstate it was about the same. I towed my trailer around town and saw spreads from 12 to 18 degrees in the same 40 minute drive. I changed my tune from stock to the 50HP Towing tune loaded in the SCT3 and nothing changed.

My water temp is barely cracking 190 and the oil is mid 190's to 204. I'm due for an oil change shortly but I figured that shouldn't affect it.

Could the new water pump be causing the ECT to be lower than usual? Is it possible for the Oil Cooler to have clogged again, after several years of the ELC?

Thanks,

Joe
 
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#3 ·
If they did a chemical flush I wouldn't be surprised if some stuff got dislodged in the process and ended up getting hung up in the oil cooler. Even so, it doesn't sound like it's enough to completely clog it or the oil temp would be higher. It's still doing it's job and you've got a BPD EGR cooler so I think Heavy is right, no worries unless the deltas get worse.

It might be interesting to put a few hundred miles on it then cut open that new filter and see what's in it.
 
#4 ·
flushing is a good way to ruin a good oil/egr cooler. Something you can try if the temps start to get worse is reverse flushing the oil cooler. It is pretty simple and has helped some use their cooler for a few more years or permanently fixed the high temps issue.

a quick google search has some pictures and what o rings you'll need to replace after opening it up etc. its not a in-depth process and normal hand tools with a garden hose and a small adapter.,


sorry I am trying to find the write up still
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the quick responses! I'll keep an eye on the deltas for a few more weeks. I have to go on a trip shortly and will be towing heavy so that should provide a nice test. When I flushed the system the first time to change to the ELC, I used the system described on this forum and probably went overboard. I kept flushing it all weekend, used the proper chemicals, used hot water, pulled the both rear freeze plugs etc. I got some serious gunk and sand out of the engine doing this. I really hope the Oil cooler didn't get plugged up again. If the deltas get worse, I'll look at doing a reverse flush.

So it's possible the T-stat could be going bad or stuck open?

Could a clogged EGR Valve cause any of this? I haven't pulled it in about a year to clean it. I try to floor the truck at least once a week to blow out the soot, and it's fun.

Thanks,

Joe
 
#9 ·
Worth repeating.

UPDATE:
I towed my trailer to work with me today. 18 mile trip, mostly interstate speed. I was able to maintain 65MPH for at least 15 to 20 minutes until I hit traffic and then it was slow and go 30 to 40 MPH. These are the temps I saw.

EOT 226
ECT 204
EGT 950

It was 64 degrees outside and I'm in Florida, so there aren't any hills besides bridges :) The coolant never seemed to follow the Oil temps after the truck was warmed up. They topped out at 204 and then the oil just kept climbing.

When I was in stop and go traffic, the Oil temps dropped to 220 and the coolant dropped around 188 to 192.

I'm towing near my maximum rated load, but before the recent work on the truck, the coolant always followed the oil with the normal delta. I'm thinking that when Ford changed the water pump, they flushed the system and clogged my oil cooler.

If this is the case, what are the chances that I can convince them of this and get them to pay for the new oil cooler?

I need this like I need my hair on fire!

Joe
They will not "warranty" the work because the oil cooler clogged. You asked them to do the work, didn't you? there's nothing, other than a backflush, that they could have done to stop it from clogging while flushing. You may be able to talk them into a backflush of the cooler, but I doubt they'd do it for free. :twocents:
 
#7 ·
UPDATE:
I towed my trailer to work with me today. 18 mile trip, mostly interstate speed. I was able to maintain 65MPH for at least 15 to 20 minutes until I hit traffic and then it was slow and go 30 to 40 MPH. These are the temps I saw.

EOT 226
ECT 204
EGT 950

It was 64 degrees outside and I'm in Florida, so there aren't any hills besides bridges :) The coolant never seemed to follow the Oil temps after the truck was warmed up. They topped out at 204 and then the oil just kept climbing.

When I was in stop and go traffic, the Oil temps dropped to 220 and the coolant dropped around 188 to 192.

I'm towing near my maximum rated load, but before the recent work on the truck, the coolant always followed the oil with the normal delta. I'm thinking that when Ford changed the water pump, they flushed the system and clogged my oil cooler.

If this is the case, what are the chances that I can convince them of this and get them to pay for the new oil cooler?

I need this like I need my hair on fire!

Joe
 
#10 ·
I still don't think those numbers are too bad. A max delta of 22 degrees while towing close to 12k pounds (I'm guessing that's the max you referred to) doesn't sound too bad to me and your oil can easily handle a temp of 226.

I'm not saying it's not clogged. It was clearly performing better before the flush and now your delta is worse so I'd bet money that it's restricted but not nearly as restricted as others with some kind of crazy 50 degree delta!

If it was my rig, I'd perform the real delta test on a flat, open road with no trailer and no stop-n-go traffic. Then I'd feel more confident about classifying it as a "critical" problem or a "when I get around to it" problem.

The reverse flush that ZMANN and Gator are pushing is most effective when performed as soon as possible before the crud really gets stuck in the cooler. The longer you wait, the less likely it is to remove the crud. And no, I don't think the dealer will eat the cost of it either but you can sure ask.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0-maintanence-info/207923-6-0-coolant-flush-write-up.html
 
#14 ·
it's worth a call if it's a ford dealer to see if they will cover something


and I don't think they have a reverse flush procedure so they probably won't cover/do that regardless

the good news is it isn't that bad to DIY
and you can recover most of your coolant although you won't be able to reuse most of it right away since you need non diluted for most of the fill after a flush
 
#15 ·
Thanks again for all of the replies. I was out of town this past weekend camping with the family...and testing the oil cooler on a short trip. On this longer haul with the trailer, I saw ECTs ranging 204 to 210 with the oil temps 228 to 231 (hills). The Trailer is 36' and I tip the scale at 19,830 lbs. This is the same trailer that I've towed for several years with no real issues. This current problem happened so close to this camping trip that I really didn't have a chance to deal with it prior to leaving. From the history of my truck, I'm pretty sure the oil cooler is plugged up. If it can't handle towing in the small hills of Florida, it won't work in the mountains this summer, where it did before the repairs by Ford.

When Ford changed the water pump and a heater hose, I gave them the ELC coolant to "change" it while they were working on that system. I also had them change my coolant filter because it was due. I don't recall telling them to flush it, but it really doesn't matter at this point as I don't think they meant to cause a problem and it really just appears to be bad luck. I will say I was surprised the tech questioned the red coolant which makes me believe he hasn't researched very much on the 6.0L. He also isn't the usual tech I had do the work on the truck, that guy retired. I asked him if he could do a back flush and he said (as someone here did) that they don't have a procedure for that. He suggested that the oil cooler needs to be replaced (I agree) and the EGR cooler at the same time (mine is a bullet proof diesel design so I don't think that is needed).

My dealer wants about $1,300 for the labor plus parts. I checked the old Tousley Ford site and they show the oil cooler to be discontinued?? Anybody know where I can get the oil cooler? My dealer wants $800 for the part and I got the last one for half that.

At this point, I don't think a backflush will help me. I need to get another 5 years out of the truck so I'm going to bite the bullet and get the oil cooler done again. Since I've been running the ELC coolant for around 5 years, would I need to do that super flush out the freeze plugs again before they change the cooler? Ford already did their flush a few weeks ago. If I need to flush again, does anyone have the link to those directions?

Thanks again guys!
 
#16 ·
ask for a price on here Auto Nation is Tousleys

the coolers are not N/A you probably found an old part #

You are making a mistake by not doing a backflush IMO you may save 1300.00


otherwise look at the Bulletproof options and get the cooler out of the valley
 
#17 ·
#18 ·
Zmann - I'll look into the backflush again. I need to find that thread that explained how to do it. It can't hurt to try it. I'm also going to test my oil this oil change and see if there are any other issues on the horizon.

G8orFord thanks for the link on the cooler. Are there any updated versions of the cooler from Ford or are they all the same?

Thanks,

Joe
 
#21 ·
Zmann, thanks for the link. I remember this is the one that I did when I first changed my oil cooler. I left the FoMoto valves in the block so it won't be too hard to flush. My dealer said they flushed the system per their normal procedures. I'll still do my flush and then monitor my deltas. I bought the oil cooler from XDP (think they are a sponsor?) and it was listed as the Ford OEM part with the number posted above. It was a few bucks more than White Bear.

Should I really recycle the coolant or just put in new?

If I have to put the new oil cooler in the truck, are there any other items I should address while we are knee deep in the engine...that I haven't already done in the first round of bulletproofing?

Thanks,

Joe
 
#22 ·
No, the oil cooler will cover it. 1,300 is outrageous. I get 8.5 hours as a tech to replace one and our labor rate is 90/hour. 800 is insane as the Ford oil cooler is only about 350.. you will need an egr gasket kit(117 bucks from ford) and should get new intake gaskets as well. Reusing the coolant will not be a problem, I do it every day. I would just like to give you a heads up that you need to drain the reservoir for the hpop under the oil cooler before you pull the screen out, and make sure NOTHING falls into the reservoir. And just make sure the up pipes are seating into the turbo completely before tightening the clamp down or it will leak. Good luck, they are fairly easy to do.
 
#23 ·
After the relocation, it's a 20 minute job to replace the oil cooler. It also gets the cooler out of the valley of the engine (a fairly hot place) and allows you to place a full flow filtration option BEFORE the cooler too avoid subsequent replacements. It's not for everybody, but considering it comes with a new OEM cooler, gaskets and everything else, I personally think it's one of the most reasonably priced things BPD sells. Especially with the discount. Take the cost of the cooler and gaskets out and you're looking at about $800 or so. I listed the option so the OP would know about it. Nothing more.
 
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#24 ·
I was talking about what Ford quoted him. BPDs factory cooler relocate is very clean, but I still push IPRs kit long before I'd support BPD.
 
#26 ·
I'm not interested in arguing with you. I've installed dozens of each kit and in my opinion, IPR builds a more functional kit. Bulletproofs is definitely prettier though and looks much more factory. Have you installed an IPR kit? Give them a chance. They're a small company trying to start in a world dominated by Bulletproof. I don't have either kit on my truck, I use Maryland's kit.
 
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