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Emire Diesel Procharger kit

17K views 51 replies 14 participants last post by  Gearhead2012 
#1 ·
:confused:Please don't kill me for this, but I still have thoughts about this setup.:confused:
f250 empire procharger kit with turbo.

Is there anyone that can tell me anything about this setup or know anything about anyone running this setup. Feel free to post here, seeing how i can't find anything about anyone running this since 2010.

Again! Don't kill the Questioner..... :eek:hnoes:

I really don't see why this would be a bad setup. :dunno:
 
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#5 ·
:popcorn2::popcorn2:
 
#3 ·
I know a guy who tan a f1c prochatger feeding and s366, he actually really liked it and built boost stupidly fast. At idle he sat around 2 psi and was making around 15-17 at 2000rpm tc unlocked. It was a monster. I think he was only making 600hp or so and was his daily driver. When I first saw it I was in shock. Someone else had seen it but I forgot who. Theyre here on the org so maybe they will chime in an remember more than I did. But ideally your building a lot of low end boost. Idk if the rods are meant for that or like it at such low rpm rotating. But I love the idea
 
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#4 ·
Good deal! Thanks for the input.
Yeah, Ive heard the only real problem they were having was the Duramax breaking crank shafts. From what I've gathered the Powerstroke and Cummins did very well with the instant torque. I'm very open to what everyone has to say. Keep it coming guys
 
#6 ·
I had thought about this too. Having a manual transmission, it can be difficult to build boost. My turbo lights at 16-1700 rpms. However, guys with 68mm VGT turbos and ZF6s say that they usually light around 2500rpm. I can't do that in my daily driver.

There was some talk about this procharger kit on PSA, being a good setup for manual trucks. Never heard anyone trying it out. I did see a supercharged triple turbo Cummins a while back. Haha! That was a MONSTER setup, but he only reportedly made 650~ish rwhp.
 
#7 ·
Well thank you for jumping in! :) If you dig real hard I found around 5 or 6 videos of the setup on a 6.0. I can definitely see it being benefitial for a manual trans. Instant power is instant power. And as far as people saying 600 to 650 mark.. that procharger is good for around 950hp. I'm pretty sure that being around the 6's already will do nothing but gain power by adding one and allow for even bigger sticks to be added and clean them up at the same time. I definitely would like to know how it holds up as a reliable system. Will it improve mpg or kill them, is it way to hard on the internals and so on.
Keep it coming fellas!:woot:
 
#10 ·
I've thought a lot about using a prochargers ad the high pressure charger in a compound setup, with a s480 over it. Should spool stupid fast, but I don't know how happy the procharger would be in that setup long term.
 
#12 ·
I wouldn't run one with a manual trans. Instant boost with down low power = cracked block.

I have ridden in one and even drove one. It is a fun setup but it isn't something that has been fine tuned with no issues. I wouldn't run one.
 
#13 ·
I'll say this, the pro charger will be amazing in a manual truck, no long term effect would come from the supercharger other than great boost off the line. I would never spray nitrous with that setup, as its a pulley driven system it will rob horsepower and put more constant engine load which may decrease horsepower actually by about 6% or so. That's the kind of load I've seen pro chargers add to a motor. As for cracking a block, I would find that hard to do IMHO as the block is really meaty, and the lower ends in these trucks are very stout. Would I do ARP rob bolts and ARP main studs, yes, billet rods? Yes. Maybe even a girdle because your taking a super high compression motor and forcing a lot more compression down low. And by a lot I mean ALOT. And the f1c does really well up to about 3000rpm with the smaller pulley. Match that with a 1.0-1.15 turbine/75-80mm compressor wheel. That turbo would light off and be making very good boost right around 27-2800rpm, then you could use a blow off valve at 35psi boost in the mid pipe so the pro charger isn't working with such great loads. Your back pressure will be pretty good since your not force feeding another turbine wheel and building pressure per turbine. If the pro charger itself wasn't $3k I would've gone that route. Works amazing, fits snug and doesn't add more heat like a second turbo does. It only adds another pulley and belt, pro charged itself and a BOV if you want. Theyre super basic systems but would take time getting it dialed so you don't build back pressure too quick from pro charger to turbo. I say do it if you have the money. I'd love to go that route for a street driven manual truck. I love manuals but the lag can get annoying under 2k rpm with these 6.0s. Although with my compound setup tc locked in OD I can build 17-20psi boost by 2000rpm and 50psi boost by 2300rpm with tc locked. Unlocked its a different story hahaha. But man! A pro/turbo charged 6.0 with a manual would be so fun
 
#14 ·
I have also looked into this option a lot. I searched the internet for hours... It usually ended up with the same result. Someone put it on and loved it... but then only kept it for a short while and quickly sold it afterwards. I never saw why???



Earlier this year we even looked into trying to make a kit. More for awesome low end power, NOT for top end performance. We were not going to run a giant supercharger. We were going to run a smaller 56mm charger and mount it right where a twin HPOP would go... Figured it would make a NASTY setup with a 68mm stage 3 turbo for a LP...


Super charger output power is directly related to RPMs. I believe that would be a little bit of a limiting factor with our trucks and reaching the full potential of the supercharger because we have such a small rpm band.
 
#15 ·
When you have power instantly in low RPM's, blocks crack.


How do you turn the boost off when you are going downhill? Say you want to use the engine to slow you down with higher RPM's when you are towing...


Find out how many miles and how many actual running setups are still out there.
 
#17 ·
I could defiantly see bent rods and broken cranks with a lot of torque down low, similar to what the 6.7 was doing early on until tuning became better.

An electronic BOV would be crucial with this setup so it doesn't build boost when not needed like coasting down a hill. If someone spent the time to really dial in the tuning I think it could be an awesome setup.
 
#18 ·
Exactly cameron. An electronic bov would be key. As would a small pulley if you wanted to make a lot of power in a short period of rpm range. I know my friend is making 9lbs boost with his super charger on his yora. Wicked fast race trucl. Same concept except we could run a waaaay bigger pro charter and a very small pulley.

I really don't see a block cracking. But like I said I would definitely do rods and ARP bolts and studs in the lower end. I mean a pro charger is no different than spraying 3 stages of nitrous off the line with compounds. Its probably a lot easier on the motor even to run a pro charger. And if it was a serious concern just half fill the block. Lol. Race truck

But really its possible and would be amazing. But I also love my compounds. I just made a video for William(I need to send this to you or I can post it on instagram) of my boost. With the 362/475 with tc locked in OD at 1500rpm I'm making 5psi boost. At 1900 rpm I'm at 25psi boost. 2300rpm I'm at 53psi boost. So I like compounds a lot but I'd love to try a pro charger for that instant line boost feel like a gasser
 
#29 ·
FYI, my friends fully built motor cracked. The setup is fun, smokeless with pretty much any sized injector, and took off instantly. But instant boost with fuel = instant torque = unhappy block. There was even mention from someone at Empire that if he was running a automatic tranny it may not split the block. It is still a setup that needs a lot more work to get it properly setup.
 
#19 ·
I contacted Empire about this kit a little while back and was told they no longer offer it.
 
#20 · (Edited)
II contacted empire yesterday about it, they have a few lots left in stock but they don't really promote it or market it much, just never caught on. Price was a big deferent.

And as for my dreams of using the procharger as a hp turbo, that's out...evidently they come apart when you feed them pressurized air lol. Empire tried it. I'd sTill consider it, I learned a bunch from talking with empire yesterday, evidently you pair it with a close size turbo, not like compounds where say a 362 and 480 pair well. There's theeads out there of a procharger dialed back cleaning up /2('s, paired with a stock turbo...from like 5 years ago. I think a drive able towable 700 hp would be possible. Saw some disjoin ting dyno numbers...like 584, on YouTube video...not bad, but not the greatest...my 68 made that much as is. I'm mostly after the drivability factor, the kc 68drives great, but zero lag, ever sounds amazing.

I'm combing craigslist for a cheap used procharger, when I find one I think I'm going to start planning how to package it, and mount it, I think I'm going to give it a shot, on the cheap. This is something I've thought about on and off for a while, I've been set on compounds for a few months now, I was always wishy washy on the HP...I didn't want it to be laggy. Plus I kinda want to do something different.
 
#21 ·
Yeah kinda what empire told me. Said they could put a kit together for me if I was interested. But said once they're gone they're gonna no longer produce the kits. I just always thought the kits seemed better than a compound kit due to the fact there's no exhaust fabrication/plumbing involved.
 
#22 ·
The pictures of the kit I saw was just as bad as compounds... it goes in the battery tray area on the passenger side just like most compounds and then you had to run the belt all the way over there and the cac piping. Even though it did not have the exhaust side it still looks like a giant mess. IMO
 
#24 · (Edited)
Here's a pic of Matt's(CED) old procharger setup he was running on one of his truck's. I believe he was running it with a 71 or 72mm non vgt along with a BOV. And the belt routing isn't gonna be all that different than a truck running a dual HPOP setup. Honestly...I think the setup looks really clean!
 
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#25 ·
It's not bad, I'd put the battery down on the frame, not sands i bed over on the drivers side with the other batter. And it was a 70mm precision turbo he ran it with, along with a bad set of 225's.

I'd love to figure out a way to put the blower on the drivers side, but it's so tight over there with the radiator hose, cold side cac, Steering box, brake booster and degas bottle and all. I really like 'linear' piping. It'd be great to squeeze the blower kinda where the stock air box is, then feed the turbo kind of like factory. Nice and short, not a bunch of piping back and forth. We'll see how it goes.
 
#27 ·
saw one of these setups run at a local drag strip a couple years ago and you would of never thought it was a diesel. the truck produced no smoke it was amazing. it was a pro charger paired with a 75mm non vgt. don't know the fuel though etc etc.
 
#30 ·
Well, with all this being said. Sounds like there are alot of us that are very interested in doing this setup. I think there are alot of people willing to even be tester for someone willing to build a great setup. Hint Hint like myself... Charlie.... :poke. Seeing how Empire sounds like they may stop making these setups.
 
#31 · (Edited)
6.0 blocks are very strong...as are the cranks and stock Pistons as far as diesels go...I find it relatively hard to believe the block cracked before a rod bent. But stranger things have happened. Tuning would be the biggest factor. Price is the biggest deterent to most people...The blower alone is 2700 new...they're self contained, which eiminates some of the hoses and oil drains needed, and there's no exhaust tubing to run like in a compound setup...so in some ways it's easier, but I get the impression no one has really taken the time to dial the motor in. I think most of these were initially tried on trucks with stick motors (except studs) and stock transmissions, meaning people maybe weren't pushing them very hard. I called procharger a few times on this and they had ZERO help for turbo pairing...no compressor maps available from procharger either which is dumb. Nothing against empire at all, because they pioneered this, but I think it's feasable to put the blower on the drivers side, basically with the air filter in the stock-ish location, blower immediately behind it. Trouble is, for the air filter/blower inlet to face forward it needs to be a reverse rotation blower. Otherwise for standard rotation the inlet faces the firewall like in a mustang. I'm ready to buy one and start mocking it up, but the reverse rotations are harder to find used, I'd prefer not to drop $2700 bucks just to try it out, but might have to.
 
#34 ·
I ordered a procharger for mock up, it doesn't have any guts in it, but to even see if it was feasable to put it where I wanted I didn't want to drop almost $3k. I'll let you know how it goes, won't be overnight, but hopefully in the next handfu of weeks I can get some bracketry and belt tensioners and all mocked up. If and when I do this, it'll be completed with air fuel ratio numbers before and after, egt's, ect. I am slightly concerned that at 70 mph it might be cruising at 20 psi of boost...won't really hurt anything, I suppose...but some of that could be tweaked with tuning if still running a Vgt turbo, and pulley size. I've been trying to plan when turbo to pair with it, I'm thinking I might just try pairing it with my kc68 for now, just to see...then maybe move up to a 71-75mm (~80-100 lbs per minute) turbo, non Vgt. I think it'd be pretty sweet to have 55 psi boost at 40 psi back pressure lol, since the turbo won't necessarily need as much drive pressure as the blower will be essentially giving it a 10-15 psi head start lol.
 
#33 ·
This is my next step for my truck depending on my what i decide for my truck. I may just leave it be and Procharge it.
 
#35 ·
Awesome! You could always run the electric bov while cruising around. You'd figure on highway at 20psi you would be running real cool and efficient burning up all that fuel, less throttle, it would make up for the drag on the belt having to be spun. Go to a manual trans with this pro charged and you will be able to tow anything and won't have to worry about boost loss in between shifts
 
#36 ·
Something to take into consideration...

A setup like this will actually run pretty hot according to my research. Yes you should be able to cram more air in the system to counteract any extra fuel that might be left over... but you are compressing the air twice which creates much more heat.

Here is a quote from another site:

"the efficiencies of the turbo and supercharger are also multiplied, and since the efficiency of the supercharger is often much lower than that of large turbochargers, this can lead to extremely high manifold temperatures unless very powerful charge cooling is employed. For example, if a turbocharger with an efficiency of 70% blew into a Roots blower with an efficiency of 60%, the overall compression efficiency would be only 42% -- at 2.8 pressure ratio as shown above and 20 °C (68 °F) ambient temperature, which means that air exiting the turbocharger would be 263 °C (505 °F), which is enough to melt most rubber couplers and nearly enough to melt expensive silicone couplers. A large turbocharger producing 27 psi (1.9 bar) by itself, with an adiabatic efficiency of around 70%, would produce air at just 166 °C (331 °F). Additionally, the energy cost to drive a supercharger is higher than that of a turbocharger"
 
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