Help on upgrades: Need more power for towing - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Performance Parts Discussion What has or has not worked for you?

Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Like Tree17Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:03 AM
Premium Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Scottsdale,Az
Posts: 8
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Wink Help on upgrades: Need more power for towing

Hi fellow 6.0's. Here is my 1st post outside of my intro.
Background: 05 6.0 excursion. Weekend family fun hauler and use it for towing our 8k travel tracker and a horse trailer. See signature for current upgrades.

Issue: Have not been happy with the towing capabilities up grades in Az and Colorado and need more power. Last two times pulling have broker down and since had to do the whole BulletProofDiesel set up and blew the head gaskets and they are studded now(ARP). I know I have solved most of the 6.0 faults and am ready to add more power, because face it, I am not the guy that likes to drive in the slow lane up a hill! Here are my thoughts and I would like your feedback.

If I am going to add power I need to keep the EGT lower plus I have blowing off my hot side tube a couple times so now is the time.
1. intercooler: Banks or Mishimoto full intercooler and pipe system?

2. turbo upgrade: this is really where I need help:
Madturbowerks stage 2 vs, riffraff Stage 1.5 vs. powermax with Batmowheel? I want a drop in turbo not one where I have to mod the setup or electronics.( I don't mean tuning, I know I need to tune) and want to stay below 2k on the turbo. I plan for now to stay on stock sticks but want to ability to move up to 155 or 175 in the future.

3. Innovative diesel tuning (SCT ad FiCM) tow 40, tow 60or 80 and extreme street for fun. Any other recommendations besides Innovative I should consider?

I am also going to do the CCV mod, blue spring mod and most likely coolant filtration. Debating on a edge monitor to monitor other stats outside of Trans temp, pyro and boost that I already have.

Thank you everyone for your feedback.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:38 AM
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 111
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I made 418 and 720 something in torque with just exhaust studs and a tuner. I tow my fifth wheel camper which weights about 12,600 dry and it does good here in GA. I am upgrading to a MTW stage 2 and warren 155/30 injectors within a month so I can tow better. And go fast faster. When I spoke with Adrian about the stage 2 he was very helpful and said it should tow very well with the setup mentioned above. Some have sad I should upgrade to 175/30 injectors and a madmax turbo but I am not going to put a regulated return on or left pump on right now. Hope that helps. Give MTW a call and explain to him what you are after.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:44 AM
Premium Member

 

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oakbank, Manitoba
Posts: 2,985
Thanks: 6
Thanked 82 Times in 76 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
I am not the guy that likes to drive in the slow lane up a hill!
You could be asking for trouble at altitude and upgrade with too much extra jam. The stage 1 or 1.5 turbo is probably a good choice with stock injectors and a tune. The stage 2 might be a bit much, as you don't have larger injectors and you are not towing really heavy. Your best technique is to climb in 5th gear via tuning and perhaps 60-65 mph on steeper grades. ensure the tuner knows your driving parameters.

BTW, the guys going really fast uphill usually don't make it too far between repairs.

I doubt an intercooler will give you much in the temp game, but if your original is broke, then both are a good choice.
Honda30 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 08-12-2014, 11:50 AM
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 111
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
^^^ what he said. I am not looking for speed as much as I am looking for better performance while empty. I need new injectors and at least one head is cracked so I am upgrading the turbo too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 08-12-2014, 12:27 PM
Premium Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Scottsdale,Az
Posts: 8
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
You could be asking for trouble at altitude and upgrade with too much extra jam. The stage 1 or 1.5 turbo is probably a good choice with stock injectors and a tune. The stage 2 might be a bit much, as you don't have larger injectors and you are not towing really heavy. Your best technique is to climb in 5th gear via tuning and perhaps 60-65 mph on steeper grades. ensure the tuner knows your driving parameters.

BTW, the guys going really fast uphill usually don't make it too far between repairs.

I doubt an intercooler will give you much in the temp game, but if your original is broke, then both are a good choice.
My boots are breaking down so I figured if I am going to spend money on new boots I might as well do the whole intercooler. but some have said just do the Mishimoto pipe and boot set up. I thought I have heard people with decent temp decrease while towing with those systems? no? Anyone comment on those systems under a load.

Also forgot to mention i do have a 4" turbo back, Cat delete exhaust

The thing you have to remember is my X is at least 1,000#'s more than your guys pickups so it is like pulling between 9-10k. I have the pedal to the floor and am lucky to do 55MPH if I have momentum from the start of the climb. I am not wanting to be the fastest one up but I want to have something left in the motor if I need it or need to pass and it is just not there to be had at this time.
What I might do first is just the tunes and intercooler pipes or full system and see where that lands me but I thought a turbo would give me that extra power I might need on the climb. I hate having the pedal to the floor, in the right lane holding up traffic while others with bigger rigs are passig me. That just SUCKS!

ANybody have a RiffRaff turbo? I hear great things about Madturbowerks turbos but like others have said the stage 2 might be too much. that is why the RiffRaff stage 1.5 interests me over the Madturbowerks stage 1.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 08-12-2014, 02:45 PM
Premium Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waynesboro VA
Posts: 701
Thanks: 11
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Lots of better ways to spend your money rather than upgrade the intercooler. The only reason I've got one is that I bought the intercooler, pipes, intake, boots, and air filter off of a wrecked truck for a heluva price. I have no data to back it up but I perceived only modest gains. The pipes are worth upgrading IMO. And good boots are a must. Be sure everything is nice and clean before tightening the clamps.

k
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 08-12-2014, 04:38 PM
Powerstroke Techie

 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sassamansville, Pa
Posts: 9,724
Thanks: 89
Thanked 187 Times in 150 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Different tow tunes from different tune writers make a difference. My tow tunes from Innovative and Gearhead are good, but my truck and driving style when towing (heavy foot) prefer Quicktricks tow tune (Agg/Tow). My Quicktricks tow tune pulls harder than the other tunes.

Not all tunes act the same in each truck, you may have to have tunes revised by the tune writer to get what you want, and you may have to try several different tune writers to find the tune you like.

My truck weighs 8240# and tow a 8k camper.


"Rich is really good with knobs, his soft touch and attention to detail are like no other."-Portcity_gt
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 08-12-2014, 05:18 PM
Premium Member

 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,504
Thanks: 121
Thanked 196 Times in 138 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
I am here local in AZ so I know what you put up with in heat and steep hills!!!

First thing is first... GET GAUGES! Especially if you are towing heavy. You need to know what your truck is doing to know whether you can push more power. Make sure your truck is in good running shape. You would be surprised how many people are running around with minor things wrong with their trucks. Then when they go to add "performance mods" the problems then get worse and magnify themselves. Go through and check all sensor, tubes, hoses, up pipes, etc... get your truck 100% reliable before adding mods...

Custom uning is very important. Get a good tow tune and NEVER tow on a race tune. There are many custom tuners, I am sure others will chime in.

then...

It is important to remember that there is a HUGE difference between "towing mods" and "performance mods". Some of them overlap a little bit but you could end up shooting yourself in the foot if you put on the wrong mods in search of power because you could end up losing reliability and/or towing ability. I will continue with my suggestions geared toward "towing mods"


You have plenty of fuel in your stock injectors to get as much towing power as you will ever need. There is no reason to jump up to larger injectors unless you plan on spending BIG MONEY on lots of other mods to make up for the extra fuel. Larger nozzles will just lower efficiency and atomization. For pure "towing power" I would stick with stock injectors. Very few people tow on more than a 400hp tune and that is easily achieved with stock injectors at a very safe timing and PW.


What you need and want is more healthy air flow... NOT just high end airlfow. Most guys towing need a ton of mid range and down low power. It is not worth it to sacrifice too much bottom end to gain a little extra top end power (which can happen when going with too big of a turbo). Some air flow mods have a bigger band for your buck... some have a much lower bang for your buck.

IMO a turbo is the biggest bang for your buck when it come to airflow. Nothing else even comes close.

For towing power I would stick with a stage 1 or stage 1.5 turbo. I am a little biased... but KC Turbos made their Stage 1.5 turbo specifically for guys like you looking to get the most towing power possible without losing any bottom end. It is a 63.5mm billet comp wheel, Upgraded .72ar compressor cover, and utilizes the larger 13 turbine wheel. It is a super fast spooling setup that will provide plenty of air flow for your needs without sacrificing low end.


If you go with too big of a turbo and larger injector nozzles then you will more than likely hurt your towing abilities... not help them.


So focus on reliability, gauges, then air flow mods like a modest turbo, air intake, ported intake manifold, intercooler, etc...


I am local to you so let me know if you need any help or have any specific questions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to peixinho For This Useful Post:
05azX (08-12-2014)
  #9  
Old 08-12-2014, 06:22 PM
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 95
Thanks: 5
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I agree with what Charlie has said. I think what your looking for is a slightly bigger Turbo and a good Tow Tune! I think the monitor should be your 1st buy as that is fundamental especially when towing. And from there do Turbo like a "stage 1.5 and get someone to get you a set of custom tunes.

Good Luck
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 08-12-2014, 10:31 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,239
Thanks: 2
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ok before you go tearing your engine apart look at the gearing in the axles you have tires about 4 inches give or take larger then stock. Stock is about 31 inches some more some less depending on the tire. So you need to regear. 4.10 although not a huge jump should put you around factory rpm wise also unless you had your tire/gear ratio fixed you are going faster then your 55 mph. For the most part you are only able to lower egt a little even with spending some money. What I'll be doing is a ported intake manifold, banks intercooler, I have a single plane billet wheel in my turbo, s&b intake 4 inch exhaust. I will down the road go to 155/stock injectors and a stage 1.5 from barder or Charlie. But I think what you will see the best gain from is regearing to 4.10 or 4.30 I towed a bout 10.5k fifth wheel no problem and if I wanted to could accelerate up hill well into the 60+
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors