I've decided to write up a thread so we can get some answers out there about tuning. I personally have run tunes from every big name tuner out there and run them in just about any situation you could think of. I tow light, I tow heavy, I drive in the city and out on the highway. The truck is used for everything from moving 14k of equipment to taking my boys to baseball.
I've been very fortunate in the fact that I've had the oppurtunity to work with tuners like Bill at PHP, Tony Wildman, Vivian at Quick Tricks, Eric at Innovative Diesel, Matt at Gearhead and Chris at Truck Source Diesel. All wonderful people willing to go out of their way to help customers get exactly what they want from their trucks. I've had so many tunes and revisions of tunes, its not even funny. In this thread I plan to throw out some general knowledge and give my experience with particular tunes. I'll also hit on what FICM tuning does to these tunes as I've run all of Bill's (PHP) FICM tunes. I'll also give differences of how the tunes performed with different turbos.
I hope to have members share their own experiences as well. This should help guys trying to get their own tuning down, know more of what to ask for and what to expect when buying and revising a tune.
Let's start with what I believe to be the most popular tunes, race tunes. This catagory would include tunes like the Super Panty Dropper from TSD, the Xtreme X and Xtreme Race from IDP, the Looney Wild from Quick Tricks, the SRL+ from Gearhead, PHP's 140X and Tony Wildmans Race tune. First, I'd to say that any of the above tunes are Race tunes. A lot of guys daily drive these tunes, myself included, but you have to realize that these tunes are designed to put the most power possible down so you can get down the track as quick as possible. I think a huge misconception is that you can simply order one of these tunes, throw it on a basically stock truck (intake&exhaust) and run clean and cool on the street with EGT's never climbing above 1100*. In my opinion 75% of guys are trying to run a tune that fueled to heavily for the street. Any tuner can write a street tune for you that will still perform excellent, but not net you the highest horsepower/track times possible. It will be much more drivable with less smoke and heat. Still, everyone wants the MOST power all the time so they go with the big tunes.
In most cases the trans tuning is different in race tunes and doesn't work great in normal street driving. This is where most revisions will need to be made. The race tunes tend to go through the gears fast even at light to moderate acceleration. This leads to your truck being in OD with the converter locked at 40mph, or less on some tunes. When this happens, the truck lugs, you get under the turbo and create massive amounts of smoke until the trans downshifts or the turbo lights. This may not be as much an issue for guys who live where the terrain is mostly flat, but most of us who live where there are a lot if hills this is no bueno. I have a Looney Wild Track file that will go through the gears, get into OD and lock the converter at 35-38mph under light to moderate acceleration. Now, under hard acceleration, this tune is fast and really puts the power down. This is the tune I made 485RWHP and 968RWTQ on PHP's dyno with stock injectors and a 64.7mm turbo. The tune is a monster up top, but not streetable at all. This is because its a race tune. It does exactly what its supposed to under the conditions it was designed to run, puts down the most possible power and moves the truck as quickly as possible. Did I ever try to tweak this tune for daily driving? NO. If you change the trans tuning to make it more streetable, you would lose some of the ability to run as fast as possible at the track.
There is a lot of talk about early lock up tunes. Again, these are great for racing, but in my experience don't work well for daily driving. I have several versions of the SPD tune from Chris at TSD and some are early lock up. What this does is lock the torque converter earlier in the shift strategy allowing more load to be placed on the engine, leading to more power being put to the ground and less parasitic loss. On the street though, if the truck gets in too high a gear and you lose drive pressure at low RPM, you get under the turbo, lug the engine and get high temps and smoke. Sometimes this can be countered by adjusting the VGT duty cycle up, but then you can cause excessive back pressure and surging. You can also tap the tow/haul and in most cases the trans will downshift and gain RPM, but if you are running a tune designed for street use in your application this won't be necessary. Personally, I'm not a fan of early lock up tunes for daily driving.
I have one tune that does a great job of being streetable and putting down very good power under racing conditions. As a matter of fact, by the seat of the pants feel, it its probably the quickest tune I have. The tune is an IDP Xtreme X tune. Under normal driving conditions the tune holds gears longer than my race tunes. One thing that I really like is that it shifts 1-2, 2-3,3-5, then holds 5th gear with the converter locked till about 55mph and then shifts into 6th and locks the converter. You never get under the turbo with this tune and its setup so that by simply letting out of the throttle and tapping the brake, you unlock the converter. This is also exactly how my PHP 140X tunes shifts. The IDP tune "feels" slightly quicker, but I have no hard evidence that it is or isn't. Both tunes shift excellent under all conditions and are my favorite shift strategies. Doesn't matter if your in town in stop and go traffic, on hilly backroads or out on the interstate, the truck is always in the powerband and the correct gear for conditions. Personally I prefer the PHP tune as my daily driver because it seems to have a bit more low end and very linear power. I did DD the Xtreme X for a long time and its a very streetable tune. One seems to pull a little harder up top and one feels stronger out of the hole. I will say that my IDP tunes have the quickest and hardest shifts of all my tunes. Eric has a reputation for having the safest transmisdion tuning due the how quick his tunes shift. No lag in the shifts reduce the amount the clutches slip and prolongs the life of transmissions. Guys like Shawn Ellerton, who pionered 6.0L performance only use IDP, so to me that says a lot. The PHP tuning has very quick crisp shifts as well. These tunes are very compareable as far as temps go as well. About 1400*@WOT is the max I see. This is with the 64.7mm turbo utilizing the 03'/PMax 10blade turbine wheel. With the 63.5mm and the stock 13blade turbine wheel, I could get about 1500*. Both lose about 100-150* when the water/meth is engaged. That is with a -20* windshield washer fluid which is about 35-40%methanol and 60-65% water.
The TSD SPD tune is what I'm currently DDing since it has the open vanes at idle and I love the low rumble that produces. I can't stand the pissed off hairdryer noise that is associated with tunes running 35% or more duty cycle at idle. The 15% duty cycle at idle doesn't cause anymore lag or any less throttle response, it just does away with the rushing air sound at idle. Just what I prefer. The TSD tunes are well known for making great power and being very clean and streetable. The linear nature of the power output is excellent. The shifts are quick and smooth. The Gearhead SRL++ tuning is very compareable to the TSD SPD tuning. Very linear power and very quick smooth shifting. Both tunes run extremely clean. As a matter of fact, 3-4 years ago when Chris Guest and I started the Georgia PowerStroke Diesel Association, we had our first dyno event at PHP. My truck was a 2006 250 ECLB 4x4 ON 35's with intake, exhaust ,FICM tune and TSD's Super Panty Dropper. Chris's truck was a 2006 250 CCSB 4x4 on 35's with intake, exhaust, FICM tune and Gearhead's SRL++. We dynoed back to back and Chris made 454RWHP/980RWTQ and I made 451RWHP/ 999RWTQ. The trucks couldn't have been any better matched. Both trucks ran extremely clean, hardly any smoke. Both trucks were very streetable and comfortable to drive.
The Looney tune and Looney Wild are what always seemed to make the most power on the dyno in my truck. When talking about Quick Tricks you have to mention customer service, as in Vivian can't be beat. She is awesome and always has time to talk and discuss your goals. If you need revisions or tweaks, she is on the ball. As far as the tunes go, the Looney and Looney Wild are fast tunes up top. The Looney Wild is what I made 485RWHP/968RWTQ with a cast 64.7mm compressor and stock 13blade turbine turbo. It never made more the 24psi of boost on the dyno, but I'd see 28-29psi on the street. On my stock turbo I have pushed up to 1800* on the Looney Wild @ WOT(stock injectors), so this is the hottest tune I have. With the upgraded turbos the temps came down to around 1650* @ WOT with the 63.5mm/13 blade and 1500* @ WOT with the 64.7mm/10 blade. Around 100* decrease in these temps with water/meth. Shifting on these tunes is softer than the rest of my tunes. Much like stock. Some people complain of the "Light switch" affect, which is a lot of power coming on at once during acceleration. I noticed this on my Looney Wild, but not as much on the regular Looney. Fact is, the Looney Wild is an aggresive race file so that's to be expected. Once you figure it out its very easy to drive. My tunes from Tony Wildman are very compareable in how they feel to Vivian's tunes. Tony's tunes seem to shift a bit firmer and run 50-100* cooler. Otherwise they are very close. Tony's tunes seem to have a lot of power come on very early (1700-2000RPM), while the Looney Wild seems to have the power come on a little later (2300-2600RPM). Both these tunes are a little hotter and a little smokier than the others, but with the aftermarket turbos the smoke cleared significantly.
Another thing to discuss is heat or EGT's. Most of the time when EGT's are discussed, we're talking about WOT. Cruising EGT's are usually fairly consistant. My truck cruises around 700-750* @ 70mph on any of these full fuel tunes. That is unloaded on flat ground holding steady throttle with ambient air temps of between 80-90*. Of course that number rises or drops depending on throttle position and the truck runs cooler in the winter (who'd have guessed that? LOL). Where the difference seems to be for me is how quickly temps rise during normal acceleration. Some tunes seem to climb rapidly and level off and some seem to slowly climb along with throttle input and level off at cruising speed. When daily driving a high horsepower tune, you have to expect to see hotter than stock temps. I've had countless people complain of getting up to 1000* on a hill while driving normally. This the nature of the beast when driving a full fuel tune. I routinely run up to 1200* while driving between Dallas and Rome GA. The hills are long and steep. Its not hurting anything. 1000* is not an issue at all, as a matter of fact, at 1100* you're starting to burn of the carbon deposits in your engine. 1200* you're still ok. 1300* is fine for short periods, I wouldn't want to hold it for an hour, but several minutes while pulling a hill is fine. I've actually had the conversation with Eric @ IDP that you want to see 1350*+ @ WOT on a full fuel tune to insure a complete fuel burn. 1400* is ok for short sprints too. Most guys see well upwards of this while running down the quarter mile. 1500*+ is beginning to get hot and can cause damage if these temps are sustained for any extended amount of time. I don't worry about temps up to 1600*+ while doing 0-100mph+ runs or quarter mile sprints, but wouldn't want to be holding that temp for 30 seconds while towing up a hill. Like I said, I've been to 1800* before for a very short period and suffered no adverse affects. If you're afraid of 1100*, don't run a high HP tune. You can call your tuner and have them bring your EGTs down, but they're doing that by pulling fuel and in turn you'll be making less power. The best thing you can do is opt for a mild street tune instead of the full fuel race tune. You'll still get a huge power gain over stock and have much more controlable temps.
I have an IDP street tune that I love to run. It typically gets loaded whenever someone needs to borrow my truck or I'm towing between 5-8k. I rarely change from my SPD or PHP 140X if I'm towing 5k or less. The street tune runs great and the temps never go over 1300*. It doesn't get the fuel economy that the big tunes do, but there is still an improvement over stock. Its all about choosing the right tune for your application.
Now let's discuss towing. I have a weekend/side job on a farm north of Rome GA. I also have a place in TN. I use my truck to move equipment several times a year. Depending on the tractor, implements and trailer combination that I'm towing, the load can get up to 14k. Remember when I said I routinely see 1200* under normal driving on the hills between Dallas and Rome? I rarely break 1100* on the same run with 10k+ in tow using my tow tunes. The tow tunes hold gears longer, keep RPM up and don't fuel anywhere near as hard. My favorite heavy towing tunes are my IDP Aggressive tow and my Gearhead tow tunes. Both of these tunes are excellent when pulling the heavier equipment. If you don't know the geography of N GA into middle TN, it isn't flat, at all. Its covered with long steep grades and rolling hills. Even with FICM tuning (currently running the PHP Atlas 80, but recommend the 40 for anyone towing with consistancy) my temps stay very much in check. There are 2 grades, both a mile+ long that I will sustain1100*+ (depending on ambient air temp) while pulling if I hold 55-60mph. Both of these tunes have a turbo brake built in, which really helps slow the truck on the down hill grades. Now, the tow tunes do not net great fuel economy, but if I'm towing that much, I'm not very concerned with fuel economy. If I'm geting 8-10mpg, which I always do, I'm happy. On my big tunes, unloaded I can hand calculate 19-21mpg highway. You can't expect anywhere close to this while towing, especially in an 8k truck on 35's.
Economy tunes. I've never had much luck with them. Ivecalways got the best fuel economy on my highest HP tunes and this seems to be what 99% of guys report. I get better fuel mileage and make tons more power on the high HP tunes, so that's what I run for increased fuel econ.
In the end, you need to figure out exactly what you intend to use your truck for and what your goals are. Then contact the tuner of your choice and give them that information. Let them recommend a tune for you based on the goals you have. Also, don't limit yourself to one tuner. Try several and run the tune you like the most. Its also nice to change up every once in a while.
I hope this helps some folks out and I hope others will chime in with their experiences.
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I've been very fortunate in the fact that I've had the oppurtunity to work with tuners like Bill at PHP, Tony Wildman, Vivian at Quick Tricks, Eric at Innovative Diesel, Matt at Gearhead and Chris at Truck Source Diesel. All wonderful people willing to go out of their way to help customers get exactly what they want from their trucks. I've had so many tunes and revisions of tunes, its not even funny. In this thread I plan to throw out some general knowledge and give my experience with particular tunes. I'll also hit on what FICM tuning does to these tunes as I've run all of Bill's (PHP) FICM tunes. I'll also give differences of how the tunes performed with different turbos.
I hope to have members share their own experiences as well. This should help guys trying to get their own tuning down, know more of what to ask for and what to expect when buying and revising a tune.
Let's start with what I believe to be the most popular tunes, race tunes. This catagory would include tunes like the Super Panty Dropper from TSD, the Xtreme X and Xtreme Race from IDP, the Looney Wild from Quick Tricks, the SRL+ from Gearhead, PHP's 140X and Tony Wildmans Race tune. First, I'd to say that any of the above tunes are Race tunes. A lot of guys daily drive these tunes, myself included, but you have to realize that these tunes are designed to put the most power possible down so you can get down the track as quick as possible. I think a huge misconception is that you can simply order one of these tunes, throw it on a basically stock truck (intake&exhaust) and run clean and cool on the street with EGT's never climbing above 1100*. In my opinion 75% of guys are trying to run a tune that fueled to heavily for the street. Any tuner can write a street tune for you that will still perform excellent, but not net you the highest horsepower/track times possible. It will be much more drivable with less smoke and heat. Still, everyone wants the MOST power all the time so they go with the big tunes.
In most cases the trans tuning is different in race tunes and doesn't work great in normal street driving. This is where most revisions will need to be made. The race tunes tend to go through the gears fast even at light to moderate acceleration. This leads to your truck being in OD with the converter locked at 40mph, or less on some tunes. When this happens, the truck lugs, you get under the turbo and create massive amounts of smoke until the trans downshifts or the turbo lights. This may not be as much an issue for guys who live where the terrain is mostly flat, but most of us who live where there are a lot if hills this is no bueno. I have a Looney Wild Track file that will go through the gears, get into OD and lock the converter at 35-38mph under light to moderate acceleration. Now, under hard acceleration, this tune is fast and really puts the power down. This is the tune I made 485RWHP and 968RWTQ on PHP's dyno with stock injectors and a 64.7mm turbo. The tune is a monster up top, but not streetable at all. This is because its a race tune. It does exactly what its supposed to under the conditions it was designed to run, puts down the most possible power and moves the truck as quickly as possible. Did I ever try to tweak this tune for daily driving? NO. If you change the trans tuning to make it more streetable, you would lose some of the ability to run as fast as possible at the track.
There is a lot of talk about early lock up tunes. Again, these are great for racing, but in my experience don't work well for daily driving. I have several versions of the SPD tune from Chris at TSD and some are early lock up. What this does is lock the torque converter earlier in the shift strategy allowing more load to be placed on the engine, leading to more power being put to the ground and less parasitic loss. On the street though, if the truck gets in too high a gear and you lose drive pressure at low RPM, you get under the turbo, lug the engine and get high temps and smoke. Sometimes this can be countered by adjusting the VGT duty cycle up, but then you can cause excessive back pressure and surging. You can also tap the tow/haul and in most cases the trans will downshift and gain RPM, but if you are running a tune designed for street use in your application this won't be necessary. Personally, I'm not a fan of early lock up tunes for daily driving.
I have one tune that does a great job of being streetable and putting down very good power under racing conditions. As a matter of fact, by the seat of the pants feel, it its probably the quickest tune I have. The tune is an IDP Xtreme X tune. Under normal driving conditions the tune holds gears longer than my race tunes. One thing that I really like is that it shifts 1-2, 2-3,3-5, then holds 5th gear with the converter locked till about 55mph and then shifts into 6th and locks the converter. You never get under the turbo with this tune and its setup so that by simply letting out of the throttle and tapping the brake, you unlock the converter. This is also exactly how my PHP 140X tunes shifts. The IDP tune "feels" slightly quicker, but I have no hard evidence that it is or isn't. Both tunes shift excellent under all conditions and are my favorite shift strategies. Doesn't matter if your in town in stop and go traffic, on hilly backroads or out on the interstate, the truck is always in the powerband and the correct gear for conditions. Personally I prefer the PHP tune as my daily driver because it seems to have a bit more low end and very linear power. I did DD the Xtreme X for a long time and its a very streetable tune. One seems to pull a little harder up top and one feels stronger out of the hole. I will say that my IDP tunes have the quickest and hardest shifts of all my tunes. Eric has a reputation for having the safest transmisdion tuning due the how quick his tunes shift. No lag in the shifts reduce the amount the clutches slip and prolongs the life of transmissions. Guys like Shawn Ellerton, who pionered 6.0L performance only use IDP, so to me that says a lot. The PHP tuning has very quick crisp shifts as well. These tunes are very compareable as far as temps go as well. About 1400*@WOT is the max I see. This is with the 64.7mm turbo utilizing the 03'/PMax 10blade turbine wheel. With the 63.5mm and the stock 13blade turbine wheel, I could get about 1500*. Both lose about 100-150* when the water/meth is engaged. That is with a -20* windshield washer fluid which is about 35-40%methanol and 60-65% water.
The TSD SPD tune is what I'm currently DDing since it has the open vanes at idle and I love the low rumble that produces. I can't stand the pissed off hairdryer noise that is associated with tunes running 35% or more duty cycle at idle. The 15% duty cycle at idle doesn't cause anymore lag or any less throttle response, it just does away with the rushing air sound at idle. Just what I prefer. The TSD tunes are well known for making great power and being very clean and streetable. The linear nature of the power output is excellent. The shifts are quick and smooth. The Gearhead SRL++ tuning is very compareable to the TSD SPD tuning. Very linear power and very quick smooth shifting. Both tunes run extremely clean. As a matter of fact, 3-4 years ago when Chris Guest and I started the Georgia PowerStroke Diesel Association, we had our first dyno event at PHP. My truck was a 2006 250 ECLB 4x4 ON 35's with intake, exhaust ,FICM tune and TSD's Super Panty Dropper. Chris's truck was a 2006 250 CCSB 4x4 on 35's with intake, exhaust, FICM tune and Gearhead's SRL++. We dynoed back to back and Chris made 454RWHP/980RWTQ and I made 451RWHP/ 999RWTQ. The trucks couldn't have been any better matched. Both trucks ran extremely clean, hardly any smoke. Both trucks were very streetable and comfortable to drive.
The Looney tune and Looney Wild are what always seemed to make the most power on the dyno in my truck. When talking about Quick Tricks you have to mention customer service, as in Vivian can't be beat. She is awesome and always has time to talk and discuss your goals. If you need revisions or tweaks, she is on the ball. As far as the tunes go, the Looney and Looney Wild are fast tunes up top. The Looney Wild is what I made 485RWHP/968RWTQ with a cast 64.7mm compressor and stock 13blade turbine turbo. It never made more the 24psi of boost on the dyno, but I'd see 28-29psi on the street. On my stock turbo I have pushed up to 1800* on the Looney Wild @ WOT(stock injectors), so this is the hottest tune I have. With the upgraded turbos the temps came down to around 1650* @ WOT with the 63.5mm/13 blade and 1500* @ WOT with the 64.7mm/10 blade. Around 100* decrease in these temps with water/meth. Shifting on these tunes is softer than the rest of my tunes. Much like stock. Some people complain of the "Light switch" affect, which is a lot of power coming on at once during acceleration. I noticed this on my Looney Wild, but not as much on the regular Looney. Fact is, the Looney Wild is an aggresive race file so that's to be expected. Once you figure it out its very easy to drive. My tunes from Tony Wildman are very compareable in how they feel to Vivian's tunes. Tony's tunes seem to shift a bit firmer and run 50-100* cooler. Otherwise they are very close. Tony's tunes seem to have a lot of power come on very early (1700-2000RPM), while the Looney Wild seems to have the power come on a little later (2300-2600RPM). Both these tunes are a little hotter and a little smokier than the others, but with the aftermarket turbos the smoke cleared significantly.
Another thing to discuss is heat or EGT's. Most of the time when EGT's are discussed, we're talking about WOT. Cruising EGT's are usually fairly consistant. My truck cruises around 700-750* @ 70mph on any of these full fuel tunes. That is unloaded on flat ground holding steady throttle with ambient air temps of between 80-90*. Of course that number rises or drops depending on throttle position and the truck runs cooler in the winter (who'd have guessed that? LOL). Where the difference seems to be for me is how quickly temps rise during normal acceleration. Some tunes seem to climb rapidly and level off and some seem to slowly climb along with throttle input and level off at cruising speed. When daily driving a high horsepower tune, you have to expect to see hotter than stock temps. I've had countless people complain of getting up to 1000* on a hill while driving normally. This the nature of the beast when driving a full fuel tune. I routinely run up to 1200* while driving between Dallas and Rome GA. The hills are long and steep. Its not hurting anything. 1000* is not an issue at all, as a matter of fact, at 1100* you're starting to burn of the carbon deposits in your engine. 1200* you're still ok. 1300* is fine for short periods, I wouldn't want to hold it for an hour, but several minutes while pulling a hill is fine. I've actually had the conversation with Eric @ IDP that you want to see 1350*+ @ WOT on a full fuel tune to insure a complete fuel burn. 1400* is ok for short sprints too. Most guys see well upwards of this while running down the quarter mile. 1500*+ is beginning to get hot and can cause damage if these temps are sustained for any extended amount of time. I don't worry about temps up to 1600*+ while doing 0-100mph+ runs or quarter mile sprints, but wouldn't want to be holding that temp for 30 seconds while towing up a hill. Like I said, I've been to 1800* before for a very short period and suffered no adverse affects. If you're afraid of 1100*, don't run a high HP tune. You can call your tuner and have them bring your EGTs down, but they're doing that by pulling fuel and in turn you'll be making less power. The best thing you can do is opt for a mild street tune instead of the full fuel race tune. You'll still get a huge power gain over stock and have much more controlable temps.
I have an IDP street tune that I love to run. It typically gets loaded whenever someone needs to borrow my truck or I'm towing between 5-8k. I rarely change from my SPD or PHP 140X if I'm towing 5k or less. The street tune runs great and the temps never go over 1300*. It doesn't get the fuel economy that the big tunes do, but there is still an improvement over stock. Its all about choosing the right tune for your application.
Now let's discuss towing. I have a weekend/side job on a farm north of Rome GA. I also have a place in TN. I use my truck to move equipment several times a year. Depending on the tractor, implements and trailer combination that I'm towing, the load can get up to 14k. Remember when I said I routinely see 1200* under normal driving on the hills between Dallas and Rome? I rarely break 1100* on the same run with 10k+ in tow using my tow tunes. The tow tunes hold gears longer, keep RPM up and don't fuel anywhere near as hard. My favorite heavy towing tunes are my IDP Aggressive tow and my Gearhead tow tunes. Both of these tunes are excellent when pulling the heavier equipment. If you don't know the geography of N GA into middle TN, it isn't flat, at all. Its covered with long steep grades and rolling hills. Even with FICM tuning (currently running the PHP Atlas 80, but recommend the 40 for anyone towing with consistancy) my temps stay very much in check. There are 2 grades, both a mile+ long that I will sustain1100*+ (depending on ambient air temp) while pulling if I hold 55-60mph. Both of these tunes have a turbo brake built in, which really helps slow the truck on the down hill grades. Now, the tow tunes do not net great fuel economy, but if I'm towing that much, I'm not very concerned with fuel economy. If I'm geting 8-10mpg, which I always do, I'm happy. On my big tunes, unloaded I can hand calculate 19-21mpg highway. You can't expect anywhere close to this while towing, especially in an 8k truck on 35's.
Economy tunes. I've never had much luck with them. Ivecalways got the best fuel economy on my highest HP tunes and this seems to be what 99% of guys report. I get better fuel mileage and make tons more power on the high HP tunes, so that's what I run for increased fuel econ.
In the end, you need to figure out exactly what you intend to use your truck for and what your goals are. Then contact the tuner of your choice and give them that information. Let them recommend a tune for you based on the goals you have. Also, don't limit yourself to one tuner. Try several and run the tune you like the most. Its also nice to change up every once in a while.
I hope this helps some folks out and I hope others will chime in with their experiences.
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App