Turbo Thoughts... - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Performance Parts Discussion What has or has not worked for you?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow!





 
dfuzz78's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 6,888
Thanks: 236
Thanked 189 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Turbo Thoughts...

So I had some thoughts while having my turbo cleaned...

A lot of emphasis is put on the compressor wheel, but why has the turbine wheel been ignored?

I understand that putting a different compressor wheel (wicked wheel, batmo-wheel, etc.) will increase how efficiently the wheel will compress the air and make boost, but it can only spool as fast as the turbine wheel will spin it.

So for my turbo gurus, shouldn't the turbine wheel be upgraded or modified before the compression wheel...?

Do they even make a different upgraded turbine wheel?

Does this make sense at all or am I missing something completely?

Denis "Lt. Sled"
2006 F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed Dark Shadow Gray

462hp / 927ft-lbs Corrected
ARP Head Studs, NUC Motorsports Oil Bypass, CFM+ Intake Elbow, Wicked Wheel 2
Bullet Proof Diesel FICM w/Atlas 40, SCT SF3 w/SPD by TSD! Grover Fire Truck Horns
Cab Light Mod, Blue Spring Mod, Zoodad Mod, High Idle Mod, Lost EGR Mod
LED Light Upgrades from Retro-Solutions 08-10 Side Mirrors from 1A Auto

dfuzz78 is offline  
post #2 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 07:38 AM
Super Moderator

 
Heavy_GD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: 804Va
Posts: 12,869
Thanks: 3,594
Thanked 951 Times in 893 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
My batmo was a flop, like you said it didn't spool quick enough.

Now its a paper weight. LoL

GD - 06 CCSB FX4 Lariat

https://www.gofundme.com/2464axqr

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.0Stroker View Post
It's Toren. .. don't question it ..
Heavy_GD is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 07:40 AM
Premium Member



 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 20,221
Thanks: 116
Thanked 179 Times in 169 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
(Not including the larger turbos built for 190+ injectors by Garrett and other manufacturers)

Turbine wheels have just recently started to be modified by our ORG turbo builders... Before, the options were simple for average users/ trucks.. Either the 13 blade 04+ turbos or the 2003 ten bladed turbine wheel.

03= more lag at the start/ pushes more air out on the top end.

04+ = quicker off the line but runs out of air sooner on the top end.

With stock injectors there is hardly a difference, but with larger injectors the 13 blade turbine doesn't flow enough air at the top end IMO.

I know Adrian is working in a new turbine wheel design if he hasn't already made it.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

2005 F250 King Ranch Work Truck.

Studded and Deleted
175/30% Injectors from WARREN DIESEL!!
Barder Stage 2 Turbo
Warren Comp Tranny w/ PI TC
Six0~Stroker is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 08:15 AM
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 
Jweber6.0L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 111
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I didnt know/think we had an upgrade for the turbine wheel. I'm getting my truck back today after a complete bullet-proofing with the new gen2 wicked wheel, found data to support 40-60HP gains on stock injectors on the concept that it keeps air flow consistant through the RPM spectrum. Heard the batmowheel was a bust. let ya know how spool/response and power turn out.
Jweber6.0L is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 08:39 AM
Premium Member

 
peixinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,639
Thanks: 205
Thanked 361 Times in 274 Posts
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
You are completely right. The turbine wheel is another part of the equation. For each given compressor wheel you can have multiple turbine wheels that will work.

For example:

gt4094 and gt 4294 share the same compressor wheel but different turbine wheels.

gt4088 and gt4094 share the same turbine wheel but have different compressor wheels




Modifying each end of the turbo will produce different results. It will move and adjust the surge line, choke line, and most efficient area of the turbo. Some spool faster and flow less, some flow more but spool slower. It is all about give and take. If there was just one ultimate perfect combo then everyone would run the same turbos.



Upgrade is a relative term... there are different turbine wheels that can be run and will produce different results. The problem with turbine wheels is it is not always that easy to change them around. It often requires machine work to the turbine wheel and turbine housing. After installing a new turbine wheel and compressor wheel you should also get your turbo balanced.



It is very easy to slap on a new billet compressor wheel. That is why so many people do it. But once you get into cutting housings, trimming turbine wheels, and balancing assemblies it is usually time to turn to a turbo shop to build it for you.



Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions

KC Turbos kcturbosinc@gmail.com
Warren Diesel Dealer
My Current Build Thread http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0...ml#post7528746

Current Setup 190/30 and KC 64mm Stage 2 turbo
peixinho is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow!





 
dfuzz78's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 6,888
Thanks: 236
Thanked 189 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by peixinho View Post
Upgrade is a relative term... there are different turbine wheels that can be run and will produce different results. The problem with turbine wheels is it is not always that easy to change them around. It often requires machine work to the turbine wheel and turbine housing. After installing a new turbine wheel and compressor wheel you should also get your turbo balanced.



It is very easy to slap on a new billet compressor wheel. That is why so many people do it. But once you get into cutting housings, trimming turbine wheels, and balancing assemblies it is usually time to turn to a turbo shop to build it for you.



Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions
These are the answers I am looking for!

Denis "Lt. Sled"
2006 F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed Dark Shadow Gray

462hp / 927ft-lbs Corrected
ARP Head Studs, NUC Motorsports Oil Bypass, CFM+ Intake Elbow, Wicked Wheel 2
Bullet Proof Diesel FICM w/Atlas 40, SCT SF3 w/SPD by TSD! Grover Fire Truck Horns
Cab Light Mod, Blue Spring Mod, Zoodad Mod, High Idle Mod, Lost EGR Mod
LED Light Upgrades from Retro-Solutions 08-10 Side Mirrors from 1A Auto

dfuzz78 is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 08:51 AM
Premium Member

 
twoicebergs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oakbank, Manitoba
Posts: 3,435
Thanks: 8
Thanked 125 Times in 117 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The problem with your original post is that it is difficult to find a turbine wheel assembly to fit, even with modification, the 3782 or 3788 turbos. Garrett really didn't put in the same effort that they did for the Duramax crowd.

The stock turbine wheel can move a larger compressor wheel, especially if you add more heat/flow to the turbine side. So about a stage 1 or 1.5 is about the limit before performance is limiting. If you change nothing but the turbo (no tune or parts), you would probably see no gains and perhaps even a loss of performance as with some Powermax results. With a tune the stage 1 and 1.5 do very well and even better with larger injectors. As you increase the injectors and heat, the original turbine can not keep up with the larger compressors needed to feed the engine and at lower power, the larger turbine is needed to ensure the heavier compressor is turning fast enough to provide enough air. At higher flow, the assembly is actually spinning slower than the stock unit, but providing more flow.

Frank
2007 F-250 Lariat Crew. MBM 190/50s,
KC-68 Stage 3 Turbo,
DashBoss/F/P, and a few other goodies
Stiction Problems - Fix it yourself! - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/gen...ml#post4509754
Want to modify your injectors DIY - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0...ger-flows.html

Working for Toys
twoicebergs is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow!





 
dfuzz78's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 6,888
Thanks: 236
Thanked 189 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
The problem with your original post is that it is difficult to find a turbine wheel assembly to fit, even with modification, the 3782 or 3788 turbos. Garrett really didn't put in the same effort that they did for the Duramax crowd.
There is no problem with my post... It's a thought leading to questions regarding the turbine side of the house.

But thank you for your contribution.

Denis "Lt. Sled"
2006 F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed Dark Shadow Gray

462hp / 927ft-lbs Corrected
ARP Head Studs, NUC Motorsports Oil Bypass, CFM+ Intake Elbow, Wicked Wheel 2
Bullet Proof Diesel FICM w/Atlas 40, SCT SF3 w/SPD by TSD! Grover Fire Truck Horns
Cab Light Mod, Blue Spring Mod, Zoodad Mod, High Idle Mod, Lost EGR Mod
LED Light Upgrades from Retro-Solutions 08-10 Side Mirrors from 1A Auto

dfuzz78 is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 11:07 AM
Compression Ignition Addict


 
madpowerstroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,515
Thanks: 2
Thanked 33 Times in 23 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
All I can say about the turbine side is that you don't always get a gain from going bigger. There are many examples of failed turbo designs and it is because of the balance. Not the balance as balanced assembly but the right size compressor wheel to the right size turbine. Think of it this way, the compressor wheel needs X amount of force to turn it effectively. So now you need to match it with the turbine wheel that can turn it with that force. Too big of wheel and surging due to over speeding, too small surge not enough to spin. Surging can happen both ways, so a match is very imporant.

2004 F250 Ext.cab fabtech 5.5" lift,and traction bars 35" on 18".2005-2007 grill and LED headlights,58v FICM, Warren dual HPOP system, fuel reg. return system, areo 1000a fuel pump, dual fuel filters, ARP studded heads, CCV reroute, EGR delete, 225/75 Warren injectors, water/meth injection (cooling mist),SCT tuner with customs, banks intercooler. MTW stage 4 turbo, built trans by Andy Warren, 4:10 Detroit lockers.
madpowerstroke is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 01-07-2014, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow!





 
dfuzz78's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 6,888
Thanks: 236
Thanked 189 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'm not thinking in terms of a larger turbine, but would a re-configuring / re-designing of the fins make it more efficient... or is it as good as it gets the way it is...?

Denis "Lt. Sled"
2006 F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed Dark Shadow Gray

462hp / 927ft-lbs Corrected
ARP Head Studs, NUC Motorsports Oil Bypass, CFM+ Intake Elbow, Wicked Wheel 2
Bullet Proof Diesel FICM w/Atlas 40, SCT SF3 w/SPD by TSD! Grover Fire Truck Horns
Cab Light Mod, Blue Spring Mod, Zoodad Mod, High Idle Mod, Lost EGR Mod
LED Light Upgrades from Retro-Solutions 08-10 Side Mirrors from 1A Auto

dfuzz78 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome