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  #1  
Old 01-07-2014, 07:30 AM
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Turbo Thoughts...

So I had some thoughts while having my turbo cleaned...

A lot of emphasis is put on the compressor wheel, but why has the turbine wheel been ignored?

I understand that putting a different compressor wheel (wicked wheel, batmo-wheel, etc.) will increase how efficiently the wheel will compress the air and make boost, but it can only spool as fast as the turbine wheel will spin it.

So for my turbo gurus, shouldn't the turbine wheel be upgraded or modified before the compression wheel...?

Do they even make a different upgraded turbine wheel?

Does this make sense at all or am I missing something completely?
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:38 AM
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My batmo was a flop, like you said it didn't spool quick enough.

Now its a paper weight. LoL
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:40 AM
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(Not including the larger turbos built for 190+ injectors by Garrett and other manufacturers)

Turbine wheels have just recently started to be modified by our ORG turbo builders... Before, the options were simple for average users/ trucks.. Either the 13 blade 04+ turbos or the 2003 ten bladed turbine wheel.

03= more lag at the start/ pushes more air out on the top end.

04+ = quicker off the line but runs out of air sooner on the top end.

With stock injectors there is hardly a difference, but with larger injectors the 13 blade turbine doesn't flow enough air at the top end IMO.

I know Adrian is working in a new turbine wheel design if he hasn't already made it.


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Old 01-07-2014, 08:15 AM
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I didnt know/think we had an upgrade for the turbine wheel. I'm getting my truck back today after a complete bullet-proofing with the new gen2 wicked wheel, found data to support 40-60HP gains on stock injectors on the concept that it keeps air flow consistant through the RPM spectrum. Heard the batmowheel was a bust. let ya know how spool/response and power turn out.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:39 AM
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You are completely right. The turbine wheel is another part of the equation. For each given compressor wheel you can have multiple turbine wheels that will work.

For example:

gt4094 and gt 4294 share the same compressor wheel but different turbine wheels.

gt4088 and gt4094 share the same turbine wheel but have different compressor wheels




Modifying each end of the turbo will produce different results. It will move and adjust the surge line, choke line, and most efficient area of the turbo. Some spool faster and flow less, some flow more but spool slower. It is all about give and take. If there was just one ultimate perfect combo then everyone would run the same turbos.



Upgrade is a relative term... there are different turbine wheels that can be run and will produce different results. The problem with turbine wheels is it is not always that easy to change them around. It often requires machine work to the turbine wheel and turbine housing. After installing a new turbine wheel and compressor wheel you should also get your turbo balanced.



It is very easy to slap on a new billet compressor wheel. That is why so many people do it. But once you get into cutting housings, trimming turbine wheels, and balancing assemblies it is usually time to turn to a turbo shop to build it for you.



Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peixinho View Post
Upgrade is a relative term... there are different turbine wheels that can be run and will produce different results. The problem with turbine wheels is it is not always that easy to change them around. It often requires machine work to the turbine wheel and turbine housing. After installing a new turbine wheel and compressor wheel you should also get your turbo balanced.



It is very easy to slap on a new billet compressor wheel. That is why so many people do it. But once you get into cutting housings, trimming turbine wheels, and balancing assemblies it is usually time to turn to a turbo shop to build it for you.



Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions
These are the answers I am looking for!
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:51 AM
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The problem with your original post is that it is difficult to find a turbine wheel assembly to fit, even with modification, the 3782 or 3788 turbos. Garrett really didn't put in the same effort that they did for the Duramax crowd.

The stock turbine wheel can move a larger compressor wheel, especially if you add more heat/flow to the turbine side. So about a stage 1 or 1.5 is about the limit before performance is limiting. If you change nothing but the turbo (no tune or parts), you would probably see no gains and perhaps even a loss of performance as with some Powermax results. With a tune the stage 1 and 1.5 do very well and even better with larger injectors. As you increase the injectors and heat, the original turbine can not keep up with the larger compressors needed to feed the engine and at lower power, the larger turbine is needed to ensure the heavier compressor is turning fast enough to provide enough air. At higher flow, the assembly is actually spinning slower than the stock unit, but providing more flow.
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
The problem with your original post is that it is difficult to find a turbine wheel assembly to fit, even with modification, the 3782 or 3788 turbos. Garrett really didn't put in the same effort that they did for the Duramax crowd.
There is no problem with my post... It's a thought leading to questions regarding the turbine side of the house.

But thank you for your contribution.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:07 AM
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All I can say about the turbine side is that you don't always get a gain from going bigger. There are many examples of failed turbo designs and it is because of the balance. Not the balance as balanced assembly but the right size compressor wheel to the right size turbine. Think of it this way, the compressor wheel needs X amount of force to turn it effectively. So now you need to match it with the turbine wheel that can turn it with that force. Too big of wheel and surging due to over speeding, too small surge not enough to spin. Surging can happen both ways, so a match is very imporant.
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  #10  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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I'm not thinking in terms of a larger turbine, but would a re-configuring / re-designing of the fins make it more efficient... or is it as good as it gets the way it is...?
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