All these Billet Wheels. - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Performance Parts Discussion What has or has not worked for you?

 
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-27-2013, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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All these Billet Wheels.

So I have a Batmowheel in my stock 03 turbo and am running 175/stock injectors. It clears them up pretty good for being a stock turbo. I am bringing this up becuase when I asked about it previously on here, I was told that I wasted my money and it was worthless. Being worried before I drove it from all of these bad posts, it ended up being great.

So if the Batmowheel has no benefit from what I was previously told, what makes all of these other billet wheels that are popping up any better?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 10 Old 03-27-2013, 09:23 PM
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Garrett and BW said what's the point, our cast wheels are as good or better. Then within a year or 2 they go on to produce a higher end line that uses billet wheels... What gives? Is it performance, marketing, or maybe a bit of both. I believe the answer lies in spool up due to weight difference and perhaps a more consistent wheel. They also offer a different profile cut that is suppose to flow better with a bigger sweet spot. Some manufacturers will also change the profile for certain user's engines characteristics. Unfortunately the only way we find out if it works for our set-ups is to run or dyno it. Look what happened to boat propellers, nearly all the high end props are billet and the performance has far outpaced the old cast process.

The Batmowheel was essentially an aftermarket replacement wheel that was milled. The problem was they were hyped up and not scientifically tested for all the sizes offered. It worked for some applications and less for others.

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post #3 of 10 Old 03-27-2013, 09:58 PM
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Billet wheels came on their own when it was possible to mass produce using a CNC 5 axial machine. The benefits of billet is less weight (faster spool), larger surface area (more air flow), of course design plays a big role, and I believe that the Garrett design is one of the best. Better then the Batmowheel, but again it depends on dual stage over single stage wheels on which will work the best. I plan on testing all the wheels I will sell to make sure it is the best for that size.

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post #4 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 04:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you both for your input. My thought is if you line up 3 turbo companies and tell them to make a billet wheel for a 6.0 turbo. Chances are that they'll all be pretty good and in the end... Its still a 58mm charger.

I do beleive that a billet wheel does have an advantage over a cast but I think they are popping up because its the latest hype(alot of hype) and people buy em. i did.

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post #5 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 05:11 AM
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I too have the batmowheel for stock charger. Mines an 05. I noticed a little faster spool up nothing major, but it is there. Got some 175/stock on the way, I'll see how well it cleans those up.

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post #6 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIKA View Post
My thought is if you line up 3 turbo companies and tell them to make a billet wheel for a 6.0 turbo. Chances are that they'll all be pretty good and in the end... Its still a 58mm charger.

I do beleive that a billet wheel does have an advantage over a cast but I think they are popping up because its the latest hype(alot of hype) and people buy em. i did.
Based on the testing we have done with the batmowheel, the experience posted other users, and the price of the wheel; I would say that it is not worth the $400 people pay for it, especially since it only netted (at best) a 10hp gain (with 190cc injectors). Now take Diesel Site's wheel, they have shown a 60hp increase with 155cc injectors at the point where most people want the gain and it is only $240 I think?? I guess you could say there is some hype to billet wheels, but I think that with the billet wheels Diesel Site and MTW uses (which are not batmowheels), there is more than just hype. Especially since the billet Stage 1 wheel has shown to deliver significantly more air and allow for a better running turbo.

Nate
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 06:20 AM
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For the record, billet is more dense than cast. Therefore, if you have two identical wheels, one cast and one billet, the cast wheel will be lighter. However, Billet is stronger, so the wheels can be made with significantly thinner blades that have more surface area and slightly lower weight. In reality, the weight savings between a billet wheel and a cast wheel is minimal, maybe 40 grams. The increase in performance is largely due to the larger surface of blades, and improved profile. The other thing you will notice is that the billet wheels, with the exception of the batmo, are single plane wheels versus the dual plane design of most cast wheels. The single plan traditionally does spool better as it is more efficient at lower rpm, however, it is more prone to surging than the dual plane wheel. I think it is important to note, that the billet wheels may be an improvement, they are not the be all and end all for performance. They can only do so much, and like was alluded to earlier, the stock turbo is a 58mm inducer and there is only so much potential there before geometry is the limiting factor.

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post #8 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 06:48 AM
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I noticed an improvement with my Batmo over the cast in my PMax. As for power gains on the upper end I can't say. In time I would like to switch out to MTWs single plane wheel and see how it improves.

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post #9 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMuch03 View Post
For the record, billet is more dense than cast. Therefore, if you have two identical wheels, one cast and one billet, the cast wheel will be lighter. However, Billet is stronger, so the wheels can be made with significantly thinner blades that have more surface area and slightly lower weight. In reality, the weight savings between a billet wheel and a cast wheel is minimal, maybe 40 grams. The increase in performance is largely due to the larger surface of blades, and improved profile. The other thing you will notice is that the billet wheels, with the exception of the batmo, are single plane wheels versus the dual plane design of most cast wheels. The single plan traditionally does spool better as it is more efficient at lower rpm, however, it is more prone to surging than the dual plane wheel. I think it is important to note, that the billet wheels may be an improvement, they are not the be all and end all for performance. They can only do so much, and like was alluded to earlier, the stock turbo is a 58mm inducer and there is only so much potential there before geometry is the limiting factor.
You hit the nail on the head when you said that they are not the "end all be all" solution. In the end, it is still the same charger with the same inlet. As mentioned above, the Bat only added 10HP to 190's and the Diesel Site wheel added 60HP to 155's. But you really cant compare that because 190's will never run good with stock charger no matter what wheel is in it.

My theory is that if both wheels were ran on the same truck, there is no possible way that 2 different "billet" wheels with have a 50HP spread... 50HP is huge when you are only talking about a wheel especially on a stock charger. I dont care what wheel is in it, 58mm is small. Maybe I am wrong but I just dont see the huge difference other than price which was previously mentioned.

Adrian. We have never spoke, I'm Matt. Do you honestly see a 50HP spread between 2 different "billet" wheels on the same truck on the same dyno which a stock charger? One may carry a wider power curve but a 50HP jump...

Thank you all for your input!

06 F250 Reg Cab. ARP's, RCD Billet Powermax, Warren 190/100's, Areo A1000 Pump, Driven Diesel Reg Return, All AN Lines from the sump, Intake and Exhaust, 4" BDS Lift, Long Arm 4-Link, Dana 80 swap, 1480 u-joints, 4"/.108 driveline, Detroit Lockers (both axles), Warren Trans w/ Billet Shafts, Drive Flanges, 35"s, Traction Bars, Front Suspension Stops(For Tug-A-Truck), Rear Suspension Stops, Custom Hitch, Roll Pan, Lots of Drive Shafts, Axles, and Pinions.
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post #10 of 10 Old 03-28-2013, 07:15 AM
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Do you honestly see a 50HP spread between 2 different "billet" wheels on the same truck on the same dyno which a stock charger?
Yea probably not a 50hp spread (on every application) but I do believe that there is a 20-30hp spread, which I think is huge in a stock turbo, stock injector application.

Nate
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