Turbo surging::: - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:57 PM
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Turbo surging:::

Before I get into this thread let me first start by saying it is nice to have friends. There are may reasons why a turbo will surge and for a vgt turbo there is even more reasons. If the ECM(PMC) is opening or closing vanes at wrong time surge, if the unison ring is stuck surge, if fuel is coming in at wrong time surge, VGT actuator not working or weak surge. There are many more reasons but for a VGT turbo to surge, tuning surge, the list is many and hard to pin down. One thing I can say is that if there are so many turbos out there and I'm talking about the MTW ones now and only but 3-5 are surging and the others about 80-90 now are not surging then it is the truck. What is it? don't know without going through the truck certain trucks to find out.

I have just found out about a truck that has been out there runing and having problems with surging for a long time, I sent out a hybrid to replace the stage 1(actually oringal durastroke) and the truck still surged, even sent out a stock housing and wheel so they could switch back if the couldn't getthe surging problem to go away. Well in this situtation, it was the truck, the owner and friend contacted a friend of mine and told him that the turbo was surging and even after they tried all sorts of tunes and switching the housing they still had the problem. Must be the turbo, well my friend told them to check all the senors to make sure that they where all clean. EBP, lines and ports, next the map sensor and ports. They found the map sensor port in the intake clogged a little, and then they tried to blow through the line (hose) that goes to the map sensor and it was also clogged, you could blow through it just not freely. They cleaned out the map sensor and all the lines, EBP lines brake fuild, the port going in intake with a wire to make sure the opening was clear. So guess what no surge, that right the ECM was not getting the right readings from the sensors and was keeping vanes closed to much and not opening when the surge was about to happen. Van timing with the ECM not getting correct readings. Not saying that this is the case with all the trucks that have the surging issues, like I stated before, it could be alot of things, just that one should go through and check all the sensors and ports to make sure everthing is correct. A stock turbo could run and not surge, but anytime you go with high performance it will find something if it's not right.

I started this thread to help and to better understand why turbos surge and will continue to update with more data and examples of things found. Everone can miss something so it's not a thread at pointing figures or blaming, just a thread of infomation to learn from. If anyone has another this that fixed a problem stated on here. Hell I had one member that couldn't load a tune on his computer and replacd it samething wouldn't load. Found a short on the oil pressure switch and fixed the problem, what's the oil pressure switch do with the ECM not taking a tune? well if I had to guess since I don't have the wiring schematic in front of me, I would have to say that the ecm not seeing the oil pressure was causing it to go into default mode, no check engine light or anything else just staied in default. Crazy, Crazy, just one more example of the ecm in these trucks. Thanks to all.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:18 AM
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Adrian I have to say that in my case the surging was very SEVERE. No tuning would fix the issue. I double checked sensors and made sure tubes were clean and clear of obstructions. I checked sensors. I checked for exhaust and boost leaks. I called you and countless others for anything to check that would cause these issues. To this date you have backed your product 110% and were proactive in the hunt for the problem.

Now I know that my specific scenario is going to differ from EVERYONE else's experiences as I have a one off turbo and that is going to cause different variables to be present in searching for the solution to this particular problem. However with all that said you worked with me and told me you had something in the works that should clear up the surging completely. I waited for this solution and it showed up in the mail completely unexpected (which was a nice little surprise). Open the box and it's your new one off custom billet wheel for this turbo. I had originally planned on waiting for warmer weather to do the swap but got excited so I went out in 20F weather to swap wheels. You know I heard good things about these types of wheels eliminating surge but had no experience with them so I was skeptical. I got the new wheel in and with multiple tunes as well as tying everything possible I absolutely 100% still to this day have been COMPLETELY unsuccessful in making this turbo surge even one time in any way at all.

So what does all of this mean? I don't know and can't say that it was the turbo or wasn't the turbo in my situation, BUT I tried MANY different approaches to eliminate the surge to no avail. This wheel cleared up the issues immediately. I don't want to say that the turbo was the source of the surge as I don't know what was going on in my engine and ECM while it was running and surging. The point is that it could be ANYTHING causing the surging and we may never know or figure it out, but with Adrian constantly working at a solution good things will come of it and my situation proves it. Adrian thank you for your time and effort in getting this thing sorted out and I can't wait to get it on the dyno and get some numbers up for you and everyone. Keep up the good work. Eventually these anomalies will get sorted out as there is always a solution to every problem. It is just gonna take some time and a lot of effort on everyone's part to figure it out and pass the information on.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:26 AM
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So all of this is also applicable on the 6.7's? Since they have a VGT also right?

Anyone else getting turbo surge?
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:58 AM
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Very nice Adrian! alot of weard running issues we get also have to do with ebp/maf problems as well! glad he got his truck fixed!!
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpowerstroke View Post
Before I get into this thread let me first start by saying it is nice to have friends. There are may reasons why a turbo will surge and for a vgt turbo there is even more reasons. If the ECM(PMC) is opening or closing vanes at wrong time surge, if the unison ring is stuck surge, if fuel is coming in at wrong time surge, VGT actuator not working or weak surge. There are many more reasons but for a VGT turbo to surge, tuning surge, the list is many and hard to pin down. One thing I can say is that if there are so many turbos out there and I'm talking about the MTW ones now and only but 3-5 are surging and the others about 80-90 now are not surging then it is the truck. What is it? don't know without going through the truck certain trucks to find out.

I have just found out about a truck that has been out there runing and having problems with surging for a long time, I sent out a hybrid to replace the stage 1(actually oringal durastroke) and the truck still surged, even sent out a stock housing and wheel so they could switch back if the couldn't getthe surging problem to go away. Well in this situtation, it was the truck, the owner and friend contacted a friend of mine and told him that the turbo was surging and even after they tried all sorts of tunes and switching the housing they still had the problem. Must be the turbo, well my friend told them to check all the senors to make sure that they where all clean. EBP, lines and ports, next the map sensor and ports. They found the map sensor port in the intake clogged a little, and then they tried to blow through the line (hose) that goes to the map sensor and it was also clogged, you could blow through it just not freely. They cleaned out the map sensor and all the lines, EBP lines brake fuild, the port going in intake with a wire to make sure the opening was clear. So guess what no surge, that right the ECM was not getting the right readings from the sensors and was keeping vanes closed to much and not opening when the surge was about to happen. Van timing with the ECM not getting correct readings. Not saying that this is the case with all the trucks that have the surging issues, like I stated before, it could be alot of things, just that one should go through and check all the sensors and ports to make sure everthing is correct. A stock turbo could run and not surge, but anytime you go with high performance it will find something if it's not right.

I started this thread to help and to better understand why turbos surge and will continue to update with more data and examples of things found. Everone can miss something so it's not a thread at pointing figures or blaming, just a thread of infomation to learn from. If anyone has another this that fixed a problem stated on here. Hell I had one member that couldn't load a tune on his computer and replacd it samething wouldn't load. Found a short on the oil pressure switch and fixed the problem, what's the oil pressure switch do with the ECM not taking a tune? well if I had to guess since I don't have the wiring schematic in front of me, I would have to say that the ecm not seeing the oil pressure was causing it to go into default mode, no check engine light or anything else just staied in default. Crazy, Crazy, just one more example of the ecm in these trucks. Thanks to all.
i was the one working on will's truck and let me tell ya it stumped me for awhile! lucky for him ive got a spare motor outside with a harness on it so i went out and cut the pigtail off the oil temp sensor and went to go put it on his truck. low and behold i looked at the original one and the brass connector that was inside that actually made the connection was pushed all the way up in the little plastic peice. so i cut it off, spliced mine in and what do you know everything worked! i think what happend was when he did his oil cooler and replaced the sensor it got pushed on at a bad angle and pushed that connector up and the vibration of the motor finally let it wiggle loose and that was it. and we did have a check engine light btw for oil temp sensor but the crazy thing was it would still read it. not sure how but its something that i will definately add to my things to check list when something goes wrong. this also made his fan stay on all the time but that part makes sense to me
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:32 AM
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I too have had first class customer service from Adrian and he has strived from the day i started this Exp with MTW do get my truck right. I also checked all those things stated above and cleaned, cleaned, and cleaned some more and even replaced a few sensors just trying to eliminate possibilities...to no avail. I would love to figure out what is causing my truck to surge but i dont know if that will ever happen w/o replacing each and every sensor one at a time until it stops and we say "ohhhh so that was it" I unfortunately do not have the time to spend on this anymore this year as it is "tow season" for me and i need my truck back. I will most likely revisit this again end of next fall. Now that being said i will be eating a lot of crow if for some reason when i go back to stock my truck still surges. If that happens then it will allow me to go back to the shop that did all my work and say "hey ever since you did my work i have had this problem" they will not be able to blame it on the turbo (I Supplied) as it will be back to stock and in the same condition it was when i brought it in. I too will probably look into upgrading the wheel at some point as Bill from PHP showed me some incredible numbers using a new (unreleased yet) wheel that he installed on his Stock OE Turbo and it was REALLY amazing the performance he was getting out of it along with the low EGT'S

Last edited by nordstrom; 02-12-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:43 AM
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Good info here and thanks to everyone for posting their experience. These are quirky trucks and it funny how things affect one another. Things that are seemingly unrelated have weird side effects as we see here. Sharing info like this helps us all in troubleshooting problems as they come up.
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