MTW Tweaked Stage 1 and 175/Stock Nozzles.... - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 146 Old 12-08-2012, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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MTW Tweaked Stage 1 and 175/Stock Nozzles....

Ok, well as most of you know the deal with my build and having three cracked heads left the bank account a little lighter than planned for go fast goodies. So after talking with Adrian for a while he convinced me to move on a MTW Tweaked Stage 1 from him and run that until I can save up the rest of the money for my Stage 2. In the meantime I'm going to run this and then send my stocker back to him to be turned into an experimental Hybrid (NOT FREE BY THE WAY) I'm letting him take his time on my experimental Hybrid so that I can get results/data on running the Stage 1 with my injectors.

All that aside I got the new turbo about 2 days ago and all I can say is WOW. This looks like it should have been the turbo these trucks came with from the factory (and after driving it with it in there I concur on said statement, BUT we will get to that in a minute).

Old.



New.



I finally got a break in the crappy weather we have been having lately. Seriously if it was warm it was raining constantly and if it was sunny it was FREEZING OUT. LOL. So anyway I got the old turbo out and the new one in today in about 30-40 mins, not to shabby. I didn't get a chance to drive the truck right after I was done installing it because my wife was about to leave for work. I did get a chance to start it up though and I could tell INSTANTLY that it was running different (in a good way lol).

When I installed it, I didn't disconnect the batteries for any amount of time, EVERYTHING stayed hooked up. So therefore there wasn't a "relearn" for the new turbo. I did this for 2 reasons, 1) I don't believe it makes a difference in the programming of the truck to do this step as EVERY TIME the engine is started the PCM has to do a brand new relearn based on the information all of the sensors are sending to it, and 2) I wanted to see how the turbo would perform without the PCM having a chance to "relearn" a new turbo. When it started for the first time I noticed right away that the whistle at idle was A LOT less, basically it was a quieter whistle. So I turned on my Dashboss and looked and seen that the VGT Duty Cycle was at 85% so I gave it a couple quick revs and seen that it started working properly, so I shut it off and awaited the return of my wife so we could put some miles on the new toy.

Well what can I say?? Adrain all I can simply say is WOW. This thing PULLS and it PULLS HARD and it KEEPS PULLING. Even though it is only a stage one, it seriously feels like the same power increase I went through by adding the new tune and 175 injectors all over again only this time it's doubled.

All the driving so far has been at night so I can't say exactly how much it cleaned up my injectors. I can however say that it's working as my EGT's would typically spike to 1800-1900 EASILY on a WOT run. Now I can go WOT and my EGT's have stayed under 1650*. That is a MAJOR improvement, BUT I'm still not running full fuel tunes with these injectors so I really feel that the 175's are going to be too much for this turbo, BUT it is still a GREAT turbo for the application.

This thing seriously MOVES SOME AIR!!! LOL I had my stock charger boost to over 37 PSI and never blew any boots or anything. LOL I think we all know where this is going , I wasn't but 2 miles from home and mashed on the GO pedal and the COLD side TOP boot that connects to the intake elbow (ONE THAT WAS NEVER TOUCHED OR REMOVED SINCE I INSTALLED IT WHEN I DID HEAD STUDS AND GASKETS) blew off and immediately I though CHIT!!! I just blew out my intercooler . BUT to my relief it blew off of the intake elbow and was still connected to the cold side pipe. Oh yeah and it only boosted to 32 PSI when it did this as well.

I noticed that on a WOT run mashing on it the turbo will QUICKLY and EASILY spool to 32-35 PSI and then drop to and hold 27-30 PSI then slowly start climbing back up. When rolling into the throttle it will EASILY hit over 35 PSI and hold around 32-34 PSI.

Ok, now on to the issues. Sorry I just want to be honest and give people FACTUAL data based on my results and experiences. I am experiencing Compressor Surge pretty badly and I am fairly certain it's from my tuning. After speaking with Adrian thoroughly he explained that he too had the same issues I am having when he ran his 175/75 injectors with this turbo. I need to get the turbo dialed in to my tuning for my 175 injectors so I can't fully say how well it will continue to perform. I can say this however that when it does spool and doesn't surge, IT PULLS HARD AND KEEPS ON PULLING. It is simply amazing to see what just a Stage 1 has been able to turn my truck into with these 175/Stock injectors. I plan on tweaking the tuning to get rid of the surge and turn the fuel up and get this thing to really HAUL (not that it doesn't already cause believe me IT DOES!!).

Here are a couple of videos of the surging I am getting. I also have some data logging that I was able to capture this happening in and plan to send it to Vivian to aid in her tuning the turbo/eliminating the cause of the surging.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to give an honest opinion of this combination.








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Last edited by Tuscany; 12-10-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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post #2 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 04:20 AM
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Sweet man, I cannot wait till the day I can finally get one.

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post #3 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 04:54 AM
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That was some serious surging. Have you tried switching out tunes?

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post #4 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 07:30 AM
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wow . surging that it is.. Sounds like tuning though for sure

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post #5 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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No I haven't changed the tuning yet. I'll give Viv a call on Monday and see what she can do for me. I firmly believe the surging is from the tuning itself not matching fueling with the air and vane operation properly and causing the turbo to over boost or spin up too fast. Like I said the tune was written for a stock charger and now I have a Tweaked Stage 1 that DOES spin up faster than stock and I believe that is where my problem is with the tuning. I think the vanes are staying closed to long and causing the over speed.

I think that anyone who buys this turbo WILL be EXTREMEMLY happy with it as I am as well. I just think anyone who plans this to run this turbo with injectors larger than say 155's will need additional tuning for the turbo in order to avoid the surging and to see the maximum potential out of the turbo matched with larger injectors.

I do have to say though other than the surging with my setup I can see how great this turbo pairs with "stock" tuning or tunes written for a mostly stock setup. Like I said I didn't give it a relearn of any sort I simply bolted it in and drove away and the way it performed had me blown away. It is a GREAT "little big turbo" lol and whoever buys one, for the price simply cannot beat the performance gained.

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post #6 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 07:59 AM
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Thats great to hear Bryan. So you think this Turbo is good but possibly not big enough for 175/xx injectors? Is Adrian doing anything "special" to the hybrid you are getting or is it just the newer version he is offering now?

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post #7 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 08:24 AM
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How about disconnecting/resetting the PCM so the VGT can go thru it's relearn cycle. This may help/solve the surge issue.


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post #8 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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I would think that as well Rich, however with Adrian confirming that he too had the same issues running this turbo with his 175/75 injectors I believe it is more in the tuning, but I might just have to give that a shot and see if it doesn't clear it up some.

The hybrid is going to be a Tweaked version with some minor changes to it over the current hybrid. I agreed to send my turbo to him and buy the hybrid and test it for him to get some data with moderate sized injectors. This little turbo is AMAZING for what it is. It is a MAJOR improvement over stock, but I believe with my injectors at full fuel will be to much for this turbo to clean up. Like I said I didn't get to drive it during the day to see how much it cleared up with the tuning I have that has fuel pulled already. If it doesn't clean that up than I know it won't clean them up at full fuel tuning.

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post #9 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 09:08 AM
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Do the powermax's surge upon drop in as often?

I would be upset if I installed a turbo and it surged like that after an 'experiment'. Then have to uninstall and ship back if tuning cant resolve it? I understand mtw's customer service is top notch, it has to be. I haven't seen much consistency about these snails in these threads to date. Will keep tuning in.

Should be a poll of owners that received and it worked as drop in and owners that received and had to ship back. Could help offset any worries potential buyers may have. I couldn't gamble like that tho, jmo.

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post #10 of 146 Old 12-09-2012, 09:48 AM
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I have had a few turbos that I had to rework to resolve issues, I believe about 5 out of 80. There will always be some trouble very once in a while, it's a mechanical device and as much as I try to make reliablity better there will always be that one. New turbo have same issues too, but it's how things get handled that makes the difference.

As far as Tuscany goes it's a tuning issue, the tune he is running is for a stock turbo with 175 stock nozzles so the but duty cycle was increased to help the stock turbo, were the stage 1 doesn't need the help. I talked to him and told me other than that his egts dropped from 1900 at WOT to 1650 with stage 1. Remember this turbo is same size as a powermax, but the spool is completely nuts.

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