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post #1 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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175cc/???nozzle

This debate has derailed a couple of threads as of lately. I am very interested in this and would like to continue it. I have not figured out how to bring an off topic quote into this post so if other would help that would be great. Some of the informative ones would be nice to consolidate in one place for reference purposes.
Tuscany is a fan of his 175/st but his first choice was something else. The bad luck with his HG crunched his funds and decided to go with these because of price.
Eli now seems to regret the 75% nozzles, will that still be the case with the Hybrid that is on its way?
Gearhead Loves his 30% nozzles but sees a bit too much heat on a hot ficm/ecm tune
If we leave price out of the equation and agree upon a towable DD truck is the goal what would be the perfect nozzle?
175cc is a 30% increase over 135cc so one would assume (bad word to use, I know) that a 30% nozzle would behave identically to the stock injector.
Can the manipulation of PW be made to fully deplete a 175/st with a complete burn?
With a hybrid/stg2 is tunability going to be an issue, especially for towing heavy?

Aaron 2005 f250 552/1040 45k miles
S&B. 4" mbrp, Arp's, Dual oil bypass. CCV fltr, Clnt fltr Mag trans pan 08 diff cover. 4.10's, 315's MotoMetal 951 & 5" lift.TGC trac bar, Bislstien Shocks & Dual stear stabilizer. B&W . Air Rides. Snows MPG Max. Edge Insight, fuel sens. DC Eng.185 alt. 58v ficm 6.4 Juger pump Fass sump
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post #2 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 01:04 PM
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Thank you for posting this! I have been wondering the exact same thing. I hope anyone with a 175/xx can chime in and give their input.

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post #3 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 01:20 PM
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I'm in this to decide as well, I think I would split the difference add go with the 30%. I will have a hybrid soon and don't want smoke living in ca. From what I read, the ficm tune is unnecessary on larger injectors, because tuning can make up for it with them.

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post #4 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bondajb View Post
If we leave price out of the equation and agree upon a towable DD truck is the goal what would be the perfect nozzle?
175cc is a 30% increase over 135cc so one would assume (bad word to use, I know) that a 30% nozzle would behave identically to the stock injector.
Can the manipulation of PW be made to fully deplete a 175/st with a complete burn?
With a hybrid/stg2 is tunability going to be an issue, especially for towing heavy?
I think sizing the nozzle proportionally (not necessarily always directly proportional but proportional to some degree) is a GREAT idea. I have to say that I think either 30% nozzles or 50% at the most would be ideal for a towing setup. Can stock or 30% nozzles be made to fully deplete a 175cc body through the manipulation of PW, timing, SOI, etc?? I'm not sure. I think it would be close for sure. I just don't know what the cylinder pressures and EGTs would be like with that much timing is all.

I have to say it is my opinion that 175s are really an odd ball injector because there really isn't a turbo built that is optimized to handle those injectors. I do know that 175/75s with compounds can be used to tow easily but I don't think I would pay for compounds just to be able to tow with 175/75s. I know there are some single chargers out there that guys are able to tow with but I think a Stage 2 is about the best option out there as long as one can get the tuning to get it to boost to 33-35psi. Same goes for the RCD 68mm Powermax in requiring tuning.

Eh oh well. Good discussion for sure.

Nate
2006 F350 (BACKYARDIGAN) - 67mm Turbo, 215/85 injectors, WPE intake manifold, NB/Warren Trans, and more stuff that I don't care to mention....
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post #5 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 06:21 PM
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I tow with 190/75s and a pmax on TSDs super panty dropper tune. I don't have issues with egts, but I have issues with smoke sometimes. If Im cruising with a locked tc around 50 and need to speed up, I have to get in it hard enough to force a downshift to keep from just billowing smoke like a cummins taking off in forth.
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post #6 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 07:36 PM
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Great questions as I have also been wondering about the 175's.


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post #7 of 156 Old 12-01-2012, 10:42 PM
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A smaller nozzle will atomize the fuel better and produce more torque at a lower rpm than a larger nozzle. A larger nozzle will fire more quickly which is a benefit at high rpms and will produce more HP. For a Hybrid or a Stage one I think a 155 stock nozzle or 30% nozzle is as high as I would go. With a Stage2 I would go with a 155/30 or a 175 stock nozzle. This assumes you want minimal smoke, and a decent tow setup. If you don't mind a litlle smoke till you get some boost rolling then the Stage2 with 175/50's might be the ticket. Most people jump right on the 190/100 bandwagon because it sounds cool and don't realize how big that injector really is.
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post #8 of 156 Old 12-02-2012, 04:25 AM
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I have a stage 2 and 175/75 injectors. It is a very hot, smoky untowable pig. None of the tunes from anybody (Vivian, Matt, Eric etc) can get it to more than 27-28 lbs of boost. (I see 30 on the drag strip, only time that has happened).

I am still operating under the assumption that there is something wrong with my truck, but I am running out of things to try. Maybe I got a bad turbo, maybe this combo just doesn't work...I dunno. Thinking of buying a turbo that is known to work with this injector size and will build higher boost and just trying it.

I know that the boost number isn't the end all to everything... but that fact that other turbos with this combo are known quantities and build good power and more boost makes me wonder.

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post #9 of 156 Old 12-02-2012, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGreenSVT View Post
A smaller nozzle will atomize the fuel better and produce more torque at a lower rpm than a larger nozzle. A larger nozzle will fire more quickly which is a benefit at high rpms and will produce more HP. For a Hybrid or a Stage one I think a 155 stock nozzle or 30% nozzle is as high as I would go. With a Stage2 I would go with a 155/30 or a 175 stock nozzle. This assumes you want minimal smoke, and a decent tow setup. If you don't mind a litlle smoke till you get some boost rolling then the Stage2 with 175/50's might be the ticket. Most people jump right on the 190/100 bandwagon because it sounds cool and don't realize how big that injector really is.
I agree totally. These are the about the most realistic injectors to use with the afore mentioned turbos. And yes 190/100s are really A LOT of fuel. I know it wasn't until I got the Stage 3 that I had any chance of cleaning them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cam1111 View Post
I have a stage 2 and 175/75 injectors. It is a very hot, smoky untowable pig. None of the tunes from anybody (Vivian, Matt, Eric etc) can get it to more than 27-28 lbs of boost. (I see 30 on the drag strip, only time that has happened).

I am still operating under the assumption that there is something wrong with my truck, but I am running out of things to try. Maybe I got a bad turbo, maybe this combo just doesn't work...I dunno. Thinking of buying a turbo that is known to work with this injector size and will build higher boost and just trying it.

I know that the boost number isn't the end all to everything... but that fact that other turbos with this combo are known quantities and build good power and more boost makes me wonder.
Does your turbo have the turbine housing tweak on it that you know of?? If not, I would highly recommend having Adrain tweak it for you as that REALLY does make a difference. The turbos with the tweak naturally boost higher and quicker than the turbos without it. I know when I ran the Stage 2 on my truck (non-tweaked version) I saw the exact same boost readings you are right now so I don't think there is really anything wrong with your truck. You are correct, while boost isn't everything, more boost with this turbo is needed to get all of the flow it is capable of producing. This turbo should at a minimum build 33psi before it runs out of air and I think 35-38 would be ideal. I think with those numbers you would see less smoke and lower EGTs. Of course your big tires aren't helping anything either as they place more load on the engine but they sure look nice.

Nate
2006 F350 (BACKYARDIGAN) - 67mm Turbo, 215/85 injectors, WPE intake manifold, NB/Warren Trans, and more stuff that I don't care to mention....
2006 F250 (LITTLE DURTY) - WPE Manifold, Up-pipes, EGR delete kit, and Tuned By ME
BULLET PROOF DIESEL 1-888-967-6653
KC TUROS - Not just a modified Powermax...

WINDRUNNER PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING
WWW.WPEDIESEL.COM

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post #10 of 156 Old 12-02-2012, 05:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGreenSVT View Post
A smaller nozzle will atomize the fuel better and produce more torque at a lower rpm than a larger nozzle. A larger nozzle will fire more quickly which is a benefit at high rpms and will produce more HP. For a Hybrid or a Stage one I think a 155 stock nozzle or 30% nozzle is as high as I would go. With a Stage2 I would go with a 155/30 or a 175 stock nozzle. This assumes you want minimal smoke, and a decent tow setup. If you don't mind a litlle smoke till you get some boost rolling then the Stage2 with 175/50's might be the ticket. Most people jump right on the 190/100 bandwagon because it sounds cool and don't realize how big that injector really is.
how small of nozzle is needed to be able to pull fuel?
Adrian has told me over and over the hybrid = stg2 . both have the same capabilities.
with vivian having a hybrid in hand I believe the tuning will get much better.

Aaron 2005 f250 552/1040 45k miles
S&B. 4" mbrp, Arp's, Dual oil bypass. CCV fltr, Clnt fltr Mag trans pan 08 diff cover. 4.10's, 315's MotoMetal 951 & 5" lift.TGC trac bar, Bislstien Shocks & Dual stear stabilizer. B&W . Air Rides. Snows MPG Max. Edge Insight, fuel sens. DC Eng.185 alt. 58v ficm 6.4 Juger pump Fass sump
NO more mtw turbo
AJB Custom R.R.
AJB Custom y pipe
AJB P&P Intake
PHP Gryphon
Banks IC
BARDER Stg2
Warrens 175/30
P.I. T.C & input.
Flight Fab. Track bars

Last edited by bondajb; 12-02-2012 at 05:35 AM.
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