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Old 10-10-2012, 04:26 PM
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Fuel injector Hold downs

I have a 2003 Ford F350 Dually. I blew the motor and i am replacing it with a motor that came from Asheville Engine rebuilders. The motor has been installed and has hydro lock several times with fuel in the cylinders. It has hydro lock on cylinder 6 a few times. The mechanic said it was a cracked head, and we replaced the head. Started the truck up and then it hydro locked on cylinders number 1 and 3. We are in the process of changing the other head. the guy from asheville rebuilders first said there was a crack in the head now they have changed there story and saying we have wrong injectors hold downs and sent us some other injectors hold downs. Can anyone tell me if they made different hold downs and would it cause the engine to hydro lock. Thanks for any help
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:36 AM
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Just sharing my story. I had a cylinder hydroloc with in 5 seconds after it started. Pulled glow plug and fuel pump relay cranked over truck to remove fuel, reinstall everything. This happened over and over again. With mine it was the same clinder every time. After a week ( and probably a day short of setting fire to it) I found that the plastic clip on the injector was cracked and not fully connected to the ficm harness. It looked like it was and felt like it was but it wasn't. I got a used plug from an injector shop and changed it myself. Worked good for two years now. Truck never set a code and the injector always passed the tests. They can be frustrating at times.


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Old 10-30-2012, 07:48 AM
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This engine was sold to someone and installed at a shop that did not even put washers and o-rings in with the injectors when the engine was replaced. The truck was then sold and taken to another shop which figured that out but that diagnosed an oil leak where the block is split. We had two techs (myself included) travel down to inspect the problem only to find that the oil pan was bent and the pan gasket leaking. The truck was then taken to a third shop which diagnosed "a cracked head". After much discussion to determine that the mechanic went thru the proper steps to diagnose the problem, I personally took a head down to the shop (my 5 yr old grandson lives 1 mile from the shop so I was picking him up). After it was installed, they called to say the second head was also cracked. I took them another head and when I went back to pick up the old one, I personally inspected the injectors. Several injectors had combustion evidence running up them and I determined that the injectors were not seated properly. I determined that the first shop had installed the wrong injector hold downs in the engine which caused all of us to spend a lot of time and money that didn't need to be spent. I sent a complete set of 8 injector hold downs to the shop for installation at no charge even though I was well within my right to charge the retail price of $45. each!
Not only did we honor our warranty but we went out of our way to make sure that this customer was taken care of even though it was determined at the end that none of our workmanship or parts were defective.
It never ceases to amaze me that the people that you go out of you're way to help the most seem to be the ones who complain.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:28 AM
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Well that seems a bit different from the original post. If the truck was bought by someone after the engine was installed and you did all this I would say you went beyond any reasonable expectation.

What do you have to say Merc04?
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:45 AM
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sounds like you have great customer service if all of that is true!
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:15 AM
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The truck was bought from someone else with the bad motor first mechanic only pulled the old motor out. The second mechanic had the running until it hydro locked.It went to a 3rd mechanic avery respected diesel mechanic. He ran several test and said head was cracked. Called asheville they brought a head down and it was replaced. The truck started and ran until it hydro locked again on the opposite side. Asheville called and ask if they could pick up the driver side head that was taken off. They picked the head up and saw the truck with the glow plugs out of the passenger side and saw the truck pouring fuel out of cylinder 1 and 3. They sent another head down. I called the owner of Asheville and ask him if they found out anything about the head that was taken off. He said yes a crack. They did send new head and injector tie downs. I called the owner a second time and he said it was just the tie downs. The passenger side head was replaced and injector tie down are installed. So if they thought the head wasn't bad then why would you send a new down a second time.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:49 AM
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Ashville, I'm sure you guys pressure test the heads? We have found some that are cracked in the injectorcup region, which would explain why some people have fuel in the cooling system...like, copius amounts of fuel. The cracks in the heads otherwise in the valve seat region are common, and shoukdnt cause fuel to enter the cylinder, even if it was cracked from the valve seat to the injector hole in the bottom of the head, even all the way through the deck surface, in theory still no fuel should get by...compression yes, and possibly coolant yes, but not fuel. Just thinking of ways the heads being cracked could hydrolock the motor...I've never seen any cracked bad enough to do that, not nearly...and just me alone, I probably do 200 sets of 6.0 heads a year...not bragging, just saying if its out there on 6.0 heads, I've pribably seen it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:09 PM
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My very unproffesional experience with Asheville Engine Rebuilders

This company, Ashville Engine Rebuilders is by the far the most unproffesional experience I have ever heard of in my life! ( Still dealing with the frustration ). My family owns a 18 wheeler Truck and Trailer sales/parts Co., we have been in business for almost 32 yrs and in all the business we have done over the years we have stood behind our work and have had to take a loss on certain sales/service due to warranty issues ( like real business men do ). Ashville engine rebuilders doesn't have that same kind of work ethic and will not be man enough to stand behind their work!
Here is my situation that I have been dealing with for 5 months now! I'm about to explain my 6.0 situation with them and please be honest with me in your replies and advice.
Here it goes I ordered a rebuilt long block motor with the pistons bored out .20 for my 2006 F-250. When I recieved the motor I took it to a Ford certified Mechanic with 15+ yrs of experience and is very well known for his excellent motor work (He puts together and installs 6.0L on a daily basis). I discussed with the mechanic that I wanted this motor like new so we replaced all 8 brand new ford injectors, Turbo, Oil cooler, glow plugs basiclly everything new except the alternator, 12K is what I got in this motor deal. After building this long block back up with all new Ford parts and it was installed properly. When it came time to fire this high performance motor up it instantly Hydro-loc, turns out my new rebuilt motor was sent with a cracked head on it before it was even moved! (the crack in the head was so big that you could see it with your bare eye not to mention they did not send the injector hold down pedistals) Well instead of sending me another motor that didnt have a cracked head and that had not been hydro-loc they sent me another head, so the new head was installed again with Brand new OEM injectors. The truck ran fine for about 4 or 5 days then it all of a sudden it starts losing power and shoots out black smoke then died going down the interstate. Well I had it towed back to the mechanics place and paid the tow bill out of my pocket. Turns out the pistons had been scorched right were the crack in the previous head was. Ashville Engine claimed it was nothing to do with them and they wanted the injector tested and sure enough it came back perfect, so then they say its something electronic with the trucks fuel module. After having the injector put back in the mechanic ran a diagnostic on the truck and everything checked out fine. We sent Ashville Engine all the read outs showing the truck had no underlying problems, so they came up with some other excuses and what not ( very frustrating situation ). Well with nothing else to test my mechanic pulled the other head off and he realized they had sent a totally different head, the only differences in the heads is the Injector mounts which if not matched up with the rest caused the injectors to un torque which has now lead to 2 pistons being scorched! They are refusing to warranty the motor even though they know for sure they sent the wrong head to replace the original cracked one! I know im not in the wrong and Ashville knows they sent me the wrong head! Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:13 PM
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Merc04 seems like were having the say problems man!
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:06 AM
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I hope that every knowledgable deisel mechanic out there reads this rather than just thinking we don't do things right. I would also love to hear everybody's opinion if you would be kind enough to take a couple minutes to share it with us.

Setting the record straight. On Merc04 issue, neither head was cracked, the issue was the wrong injector hold downs were installed by the first mechanic who put the engine in (same guy who put a bent oil pan on which caused the oil leak menioned previously). The wrong injector hold downs caused the injectors to not seat properly which caused excessive fuel to pour into the cylinders. Read what happened above and you'll know that we stand behind our work.

The B. Truck & Trailer issue is something completely different. We install injectors in every head and presssure test the fuel rails before we ever take them to a machine shop. The machine shops (we use three) manaflux every head and check for cracks. I don't know how it happened but someone at the machine shop missed a crack and we used it in bulding the engine (human error). Yes, the cylinder hydrolocked and the mechanic at Quality Auto Service in Queen City Texas called to discuss the issue. When we determined that he knew what he was talking about, we told him to ship the other head back and that we would replace it along with a new head gasket.
Several weeks went by and I received a call from B.trk&trl raising hell because the shop had not received a head yet. I informed him that the shop had not sent the head back yet so he continued to raise hell because the shop had not worked on his truck for several weeks. I explained to him that we don't usually send out parts without getting the other parts back and that we needed to make sure that we match the new parts with the ones that are sent back.
He INSISTED that I send a head out asap. I sent a head FedEx within two hours and I called the owner at Quality Auto to find out what was going on. He informed me that he would not ship the head until the bill was paid to swap it out. (That would have been nice to know a few weeks earlier!) I tried to negotiate a little bit better labor rate for warranty work but the guy was an ***. I sent them a check for almost $1200. to pay the bill to replace the head.
Several weeks went by and I received call that the truck broke down and that it had a burnt piston in the same cylinder that had hydrolocked. I told them that a burnt piston would come from a fuel issue. I suspected a programmer had been improperly set and asked for the computer information and was told that the truck had sat at the side of the road with the flashers on and it erased the information. I know better!!!
My customer raised hell again telling me that the hydrolocking had damaged the injector (I know better) so I told him that I wanted to know what the spray pattern looked like and told him to have it tested. He picked the injector up the next morning to get it tested. That was the last that I heard for over 3 months until the mechanic called because the customer had raised hell with him wondering why his truck wasn't fixed. In discussing it, I found out that he didn't know if the injector had even been tested because the customer never came back with it.
I called my customer (B.trk&trl) to find out that the injector had never been tested. I explained that the mechanic could not trouble shoot the problem until it was done and that testing it was only step #1, that the FCM needed to be checked, etc. I explained to him that all of this needed to be done so he doesn't have the same problems again.The test was done and there was nothing wrong with the injector. The mechanic did all the neccessary testing and determined that there was nothing wrong with the fuel system. We discussed the issue and we came to the conclussion that the second head needed different hold downs and that those 4 injector hold downs were not allowing the injectors to properly seat.
Keep in mind that NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED if I got the cracked head back before shipping out the replacement!
The mechanic told me that he needed a piston and rings to fix the engine. I told him that I would send him what he needed. I ordered a piston, rings, 2 exhaust valves and 2 intake valves knowing that they would also need to be replaced and had them drop shipped. Two days later I received a picture text from the mechanic showing me that the valves were coated and I texted back that I had also sent some valves.
That happened last week

Asheville Engine Rebuilders does top quality work and I can give anybody that asks a list of references from diesel shops in every state who have installed our engines and are very happy with what we send them. I have had 9 warranty Questions this year. I say questions because only three of them were actual warranty issues. The others were such things as a leaking block heater which we didn't install. People are always quick to blame the guy that isn't there.
Even the problems that Merc04 had were issues that had nothing to do with the product that we supplied them. We still went out of our way to help him.
Asheville Engine Rebuilders has a warranty on our engines and we have always provided everything that a customer has ever needed.

Every experienced mechanic knows that in the diesel engine world, things don't always turn out the way that we expect them to because there are a lot of factors.
I'd love to hear, and have these two customers hear everybody's opinion.
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