ECM Strategy/Rollback - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 122 Old 05-01-2012, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Eli,

I get this discussion frequently, and here are the facts. As long as there are no mechanical or electrical concerns, running the VXCF4 based strategy make better power than running the VXCF9 strategy with the same tuning. This means that as long as there isn't an issue with the EBP sensor not reading correctly or some other similar issue, the earlier strategies run better and produce more power. This dyno plot clearly indicates this:

(click on image to enlarge)


This was tested on Mike Friihauf's (Iron Pig) truck last fall using Matt's SLR+ tune and the files were tuned IDENTICALLY, value for value. We see these same results pretty consistently across all model years. Here's a dyno sheet from my 6.0L with a stock VXBC9 vs VXBC6 strategies:

(click on image to enlarge)


To address the other questions about rollbacks...

As to the whole rollback process itself, we started offering it because of the problem with loss of performance and economy due to dealer updates. Truck owners would drive into Ford for a minor service and leave with a completely different running truck, in most cases with both performance and fuel economy in the toilet. Reflashing the FICM offered some improvement, but quite by accident we found that the later ECM reflashes were also a problem and we started offering ECM rollbacks since Ford was obviously not in a position to offer any assistance. We found the VXCF7xx, VXBC7xx, and VXAP1xx based strategies to be the worst offenders with VXCF9xx, VXBC9xx, and VXAP2xx offering some improvement over the prior release.

Due to the nature of some programmers, if you do not change the base strategy in the ECM, the programmer will use parts of the base strategy to build the modified strategy (using differential file data) which is then reprogrammed back into the ECM. This means that if your stock calibration is a VXBC9xx, it will remain as a VXBC9xx when tuning with certain programmers. I know that the Edge, Bully Dog, Sniper, Superchips, Hypertech, and some SCT programmers all function that way. Now, in regards to the custom tuning aspect on the X-Cal, we have seen issues in the past where customer's trucks have been disabled from using a custom strategy that was not in the same base strategy group as the PCM, meaning that if you had a VXCF9xx ECM and you used a VXCF4xx custom strategy, the PCM would become disabled. In the past we've had to recover several PCMs that suffered this condition, and correcting the custom files to match the ECM strategy would fix the problem. Now I don't know if SCT fixed this issue with subsequent updates to the Advantage software or firmware updates in the devices, so I've been going on the basic assumption that the problem still existed. If you're telling me that a tuner has sent you two different series of the same file and you're not having a problem with running either one, then the problem may no longer be a concern and X-Cal owners may not need to have ECM rollbacks. However, owners of other tuners may still need to consider getting rollbacks in order to increase the effectiveness of both their stock tunes as well as their performance tunes.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

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post #2 of 122 Old 05-17-2012, 09:58 PM
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I lost my stock file when I swapped my sct x2 to my 06. Some how I set the old 04 to stock and fubared the stock setting for my current truck. I got a stock file from sct no huge deal. But right now I can run the vcf1-5 or 6. Tunes on my truck. So yes you can run a different strategy on them. The truck was a vcf5 and I so far like the vcf4 file the best. It also shows the files calibration as the syrategy on my evo.

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post #3 of 122 Old 05-18-2012, 02:32 PM
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So what is the "best strategy"?

I was recommended this in an email from a board tuner "I'd go with VXAN0N2 for your PCM/TCM tuning. It's a much better OS than TEC3. "

2005 F250 Fx4, Crew Cab, King Ranch
8" Procomp Lift w/ ext. reservoir shocks, Trac Bars, 22x14 Fuel Mavericks, 38x15.50 Fuel MTs, O-ringed heads w/ valve job, studded, 5" exhaust, Fass Ti w/ RR, XDP Sump, Coolant Filter, Singer 270Amp Alt, BPD 58v FICM, S&B Intake, Powermax, S&B intake Elbow, Snow WMI, ID Tunes, TSD tunes, PHP Ficm Programmer (Atlas 80 majority of the time), Mishimotor Radiator & Intercooler, BPD Water Pump, Gates HD Serp Belt, Flex-a-lite E-Fan Conversion
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post #4 of 122 Old 06-08-2012, 03:26 PM
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So from reading this it is beneficial to rollback the ECM even with custom tunes on a SCT?

What all is involved to get a rollback, do I need to send in my ECM?

Blake

2004 F350 CCSB

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post #5 of 122 Old 06-08-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by theswoleguy View Post
So what is the "best strategy"?

I was recommended this in an email from a board tuner "I'd go with VXAN0N2 for your PCM/TCM tuning. It's a much better OS than TEC3. "
The VXAN0N2 is what eric used to write my extreme x tune. I wanted to do a ECM rollback, but he said i didn't have to...that he can do it through the tune. My strategy when stock is VXAP2B2, but when my truck has the extreme x tune in it...the strategy is VXAN0N2.

2004 F-350 SC 4x4, XLT, 4" dual Magnaflow, AFE intake, No Limit piping, spearco intercooler, water injection, ARP studs, hypemax o-ringed heads, SCT tuned by Innovative Diesel, tuned FICM, Hellman's sump, FASS, Fuelab, regulated return, 190/75 injectors, KC/MTW 68 w/.72ar, suncoast trans w/billet input, edge insight CS with dakota digital gauges, amsoil by-pass, BD exhaust manifolds
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post #6 of 122 Old 06-10-2012, 07:38 PM
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Mine does the same thing, it will display what ever strategy the tue is based on

Randy
2006 f250 4x4
crewcab shortbed
lariat auto
Some tuning, gauges and other assorted non factory dodads
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post #7 of 122 Old 06-11-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokin6L View Post
The VXAN0N2 is what eric used to write my extreme x tune. I wanted to do a ECM rollback, but he said i didn't have to...that he can do it through the tune. My strategy when stock is VXAP2B2, but when my truck has the extreme x tune in it...the strategy is VXAN0N2.
yea that is the email i got from him, he told me to roll it back to that strategy...

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Originally Posted by Lubbockguy1979 View Post
Mine does the same thing, it will display what ever strategy the tue is based on
yea that is what i hear the new strategy that pops up is the new tune based one.

2005 F250 Fx4, Crew Cab, King Ranch
8" Procomp Lift w/ ext. reservoir shocks, Trac Bars, 22x14 Fuel Mavericks, 38x15.50 Fuel MTs, O-ringed heads w/ valve job, studded, 5" exhaust, Fass Ti w/ RR, XDP Sump, Coolant Filter, Singer 270Amp Alt, BPD 58v FICM, S&B Intake, Powermax, S&B intake Elbow, Snow WMI, ID Tunes, TSD tunes, PHP Ficm Programmer (Atlas 80 majority of the time), Mishimotor Radiator & Intercooler, BPD Water Pump, Gates HD Serp Belt, Flex-a-lite E-Fan Conversion
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post #8 of 122 Old 06-11-2012, 07:14 AM
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If that is the case why do I always see that you need the same strategy when purchasing a used SCT? Is that not the case or only if the tune was written to not use the strategy currently on the ECM?

Blake

2004 F350 CCSB

Flat bed for sale. http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/ext...ml#post2880504
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post #9 of 122 Old 06-11-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeS View Post
If that is the case why do I always see that you need the same strategy when purchasing a used SCT? Is that not the case or only if the tune was written to not use the strategy currently on the ECM?
That's if you're running a stock FICM. If you're running a tuned FICM, it doesn't matter. Your tuner can do a rollback through tuning if you have a tuned FICM.

2004 F-350 SC 4x4, XLT, 4" dual Magnaflow, AFE intake, No Limit piping, spearco intercooler, water injection, ARP studs, hypemax o-ringed heads, SCT tuned by Innovative Diesel, tuned FICM, Hellman's sump, FASS, Fuelab, regulated return, 190/75 injectors, KC/MTW 68 w/.72ar, suncoast trans w/billet input, edge insight CS with dakota digital gauges, amsoil by-pass, BD exhaust manifolds
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post #10 of 122 Old 06-11-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeS View Post
If that is the case why do I always see that you need the same strategy when purchasing a used SCT? Is that not the case or only if the tune was written to not use the strategy currently on the ECM?
i think that is for when it has custom tunes loaded to it

2005 F250 Fx4, Crew Cab, King Ranch
8" Procomp Lift w/ ext. reservoir shocks, Trac Bars, 22x14 Fuel Mavericks, 38x15.50 Fuel MTs, O-ringed heads w/ valve job, studded, 5" exhaust, Fass Ti w/ RR, XDP Sump, Coolant Filter, Singer 270Amp Alt, BPD 58v FICM, S&B Intake, Powermax, S&B intake Elbow, Snow WMI, ID Tunes, TSD tunes, PHP Ficm Programmer (Atlas 80 majority of the time), Mishimotor Radiator & Intercooler, BPD Water Pump, Gates HD Serp Belt, Flex-a-lite E-Fan Conversion
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