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6 hole vs 8 hole injectors

11K views 35 replies 12 participants last post by  rdunagan 
#1 ·
Hey all, I have a wild and crazy question regarding injectors. I'm getting ready to drop some serious coin upgrading my '05 CC FX4 with turbo, injectors, stud..etc.. Anyways, my question was there is a company in PA that specializes in building up larger injectors, 155, 175 and 190cc utilizing the original 6 hole design but with larger orifices ie, 190cc 75%. Then there's Elite Diesel who has for instance an 8 hole 185 cc injector at 70%.

My question is, will the 8 hole atomize the fuel better than the 6 hole or is that merely just gonna boil down to personal preference. The cost difference between the two are substantial, but I curious as to the quality of the 6 vs 8 hole, all money talk aside.

Any input out there?
 
#6 ·
I'm no expert but after helping buds pull heads off a few stock motors and looking at the burn pattern across the entire piston head I would say even stock injectors don't just spray into the bowl of the piston.
 
#3 ·
Good to hear. I was curious. I'm still up in the air over the setup I want but I have been teetering with the idea of the Powermax-SR coupled with either Elites 185cc or Warren Diesel 175cc 70% injectors among other things. I want streetable power, reliability yet still be able to tow if necessary when I move again. Thanks for your input. It's always nice getting others' opinions.
 
#4 ·
interested as well because injectors are in my foreseen future...
 
#8 ·
I would go with Warren, read great stuff about him. I dont have injectors......yet, but when I do I will be calling him.
 
#9 ·
I would recommend Warren as well. I had Elite's injectors in the past, and they are expensive. Mine took a dump, and customer service was so-so. I have only heard good things about Jesse Warren, though I have never used his injectors, but I plan to be contacting him when I decide to get crazy again and want more power. :scuffy:
 
#10 ·
I have his injectors also and they have worked fine. 175's and a pmax is a fun and usable setup if tuned right.
 
#11 ·
Cant say enough about Warren Diesel, I love his injectors, and the customer service was spectacular! Really glad I went with his injectors. Again, cant say how pleased I am with his overall service.
 
#12 ·
reid i wouldnt say that you have a dacco TC just say you have a rebuilt tranny since that converter is basically stock but call me tomorrow i got good news. anyways i was the one who delt with jessie warren on reidunagan04 injectors and customer service was outta this world!!!! great guy to deal with and he gave me good info on the 6hole vs 8hole because i was thinkin about the same thing. i sell warren diesel injectors but not a sponsor on here yet so best thing to do is contact him and he will get you set up and you would ever look back at any other injectors and say i wish i would have gone with those
 
#13 ·
So it seems like the big question now, is Warren Injectors and what type of turbo. I'm still up in the air over the Powermax SR or the PowerMax GT3788VA because I haven't decided which one, or what size injectors I want. Like I said in the beginning, I want streetable power, the ability to tow yet be able to prove a point if necessary whether at a stoplight or at the track. Looks like a toss up between 175 or 190cc and the turbo. Thanks for everyone's input, I've definitely decided where the injectors are coming from, now just gotta figure out what turbo I want.
 
#15 ·
I'm just curious because I bought my 2005 truck in '08 with 22,000 miles, put an intake, SCT tuner with Industrial Injection tunes, an exhaust and has been good to me, but I wanna do some new.....expensive things to it, so I'm just trying to get some info. Thanks again for answering my obnoxious questions.
 
#16 ·
First off, if you need injectors, you will need a fuel pump, like an Airdog II, FASS, or Aeromotive for example. Then, You can go with either a regulated return, or a blue spring and 6.4 banjos. The regulated return eliminates the OEM fule pressure regulator and sends the fuel through the heads, then to a regulator and back to the tank. The OEM system has a regulator before the heads and then dead ends the fule flow in the head. I prefer the regulated return because it allows any air that may be in the system to flow past the injectors and not through them.

Whate turbo you choose will depend on what size injectors you go with. A powermax and 175s is a fun,streetable steup that can still tow. A powermax is not enough turbo to clean up 190s and they will get hot, especially if you tow. Have you looked into nonVGTs? River City Diesel has a 62mm that would go good with either 175s or 190s.
 
#18 ·
I've considered the non-VGT turbos, but I really like the performance/sound of them so I'd like to stay with that. Again, I'm not looking to be the top dog on the street or at the track, just good reliable performance and still be able to haul stuff that needs to be. As for the banjo bolts, I'm not doing that upgrade as I read a really good article light night on this forum that basically proves they're a waste of time and the money because the two fuel systems are completely different. Either way, I know I'll need a fuel system and had FASS in mind, and I'm glad ya'll have provided me with good info, so now I just need to make a decision. So the Powermax sr or ssx isn't a big enough turbo for 190's?

But I have purchased the regulator spring kit.
 
#19 ·
the SSX i think is big enough but non vgt would be better. im kinda like you though id rather stay vgt esp for me since i cant afford a non vgt set up. 175's and a pmax would be one heck of a street set up! best part is you could set the truck back to stock if you had to and not worry about anything. personally i think thats the best set up because i have seen on the SSX that its a hit or miss kinda thing with the turbo. its either you get a good one or one that you have to send it time and time again for warranty work
 
#20 ·
I agree the SSX would be big enough, but I too have heard of reliability issues with them. And, with 190s, a 64mm nonVGT and good tuning would probably spool just as quick as the SSX. The GT3788VA (the real powermax) is just not enough turbo to clean up 190s at anything over 3/4 throttle. I runa pmax and 190s now, and the term turbo lag is not in my vocabulary :woot:, unfortunately, the truck is a smokey pig when I get on the go pedal. The powermax and 175s is a great setup for the street and some towing, less smoke, and close to the same power.
 
#21 · (Edited)
So, TooMuch03, I have read that too big of an injector would negatively affect my ability to tow. Is that the case with 190's? Any suggestions on a nonVGT? I think $4K is possibly my threshold with a turbo, but I don't have a wife or kids to change my mind...lol

Along with all this, what are considered to be stock cc'd injectors?
 
#23 ·
It's not just the size of the injector that will limit towing ability. It is the combination of injectors and turbo. There are guys with over 200cc injectors that can tow all day, but they have compound turbos. With the pmax, the 190s are too big for any heavy towing, as the EGTs will get too hot. I tow 6-8k with my truck, which is no problem, but witha heavier load, my EGTs would be at unsafe levels.

If the 190s were paired with a properly spec'ed nonVGT, larger VGT, or small compound setup, then they coud be used to tow heavily without a problem. Compounds are super expensive, and a large VGT will cost as much as nonVGT, and not perform as well, or last as long. River City Diesel has many sizes of nonVGT kits and they are pretty reasonably priced, like under $3k.
 
#22 ·
Stock size is 135cc and with a pmax you could always throw a bmouth wheel in it down the road
 
#25 ·
175's are about as big as id go if your gonna tow heavy. thats what im doing as soon as i get mine because i tow pretty heavy
 
#27 · (Edited)
After more research and what not, I'm highly considering RCD's 68mm VGT coupled with Warren Diesel's 155cc injectors, along with custom tuning from Innovative (who I currently have my 125hp tune from). I'm thinking that will be a pretty good setup all around and if I ever felt the need for bigger injectors, I'd have the turbo to take care of that, but that would only come if I ended up with a second truck.

Any thoughts on that combo? And, I realize that particular turbo is a Garrett Powermax with an RCD wheel..lol..Someone was gonna remind me...

How about even a Batmo wheel for my stock turbo with the 155's?
 
#28 ·
IMO, that combo will be pretty laggy. Why not just get the powermax for the 155s, that's a great combo? For comparison, the pmax is 63.5mm, the one from RCD is 68mm, that's a huge difference. A batmowheel with your stock turbo will require a new compressor housing, unless you get an 03 turbo, so it will cost about $600, that's halway to a pmax.
 
#29 ·
From everything that I have read, the only thing that is really good about these upgraded VGT turbos is that they bolt onto the stock pedastal and dont require any custom pedastals and adapters or custom up-pipes and maybe a little better response but that is where the advantages of a VGT turbo end IMO. For one they run out of air in the upper RPM ranges and the biggest reason I dont like them is because they run an insane amount of back pressure as compared to the amount of boost they produce. As in about twice as much backpressure to boost and this IMO puts a much un-needed strain on the head gaskets and studs.

The bottom line here is that if you want the response of a VGT for towing and want to run large injectors the only way to do that is with a compound setup. Now one can run a decently sized single non-VGT turbo with large injectors for street fun and light towing or just run a smaller (62mm) non-VGT turbo and still retain the ability to tow. The fact remains that non-VGTs run less back pressure than VGTs do, but it just comes down to sizing the turbo and tuning to get the truck suited for a particular application. JMO.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I was thinking about the Powermax GT3788VA but everyone has mixed reviews. I've inquired with some folks and they seem to think that's a pretty decent setup, at least for what I want/need. I still got time to figure it out.

As far as 'running out of air at high RPM's', what kind of RPM's are we talking. I moved from NC to AK this year hauling a 12K trailer through WV, WY, Canada and AK and never went about 3200rpm, well except when my engine braking kicked in going down the hill a couple of times. That was all without the tuner. I'm not trying to 'argue' , just more so understand a little more. I don't haul a lot, but if I move again in 4 years, I want to be able to haul another 12-15K without problems, like this past summer.
 
#33 ·
a pmax and 155's would be a mean pulling set up! add a batmo on top of that and it would be killer (again for a towing set up!) personally thats the best set up for towing if you ask me unless you wanna spend the money for twins but to me thats to much time money and effort esp if you have a problem down the road then it takes that much longer just to pull that 2nd turbo and all that crap just to get to the problem
 
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