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Old 12-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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EGR removal gone wrong

Hey, I'm new to this place but have been reading some of the info on here for a little while as I tackle my latest project. It's a 2003 F350 with a 6.0L diesel. I just picked it up for almost nothing and am trying to nurse it back to health. One of my first jobs was doing a EGR removal but upon inspection I found that the EGR system has already been tampered with.

Bear with me as I am new to the 6.0 and don't know all the technical terms and if someone can tell me how to post pics I can do that, or e-mail them.

So hear it goes;
It appears that the EGR cooler is already gone, and a block off plate is already installed in the up-pipe to the turbo. The inlet to the intake manifold is properly blocked off as well, and the EGR valve is still installed and hooked up, which as far as I can tell by reading on line and looking at pictures it seems as up to this point it is the proper way of doing things. Now the coolant lines on the other hand is a huge mess.

Normally from what I can tell by looking at pictures is once the cooler is removed a 'U' shape pipe is installed into the bottom of the intake manifold and loops back into a short aluminum casting on top of the oil cooler housing near the oil filter. Mine however is totally different and has been hacked together by some backyard mech that didnt know what he was doing.

The coolant port at the bottom of the intake manifold that normally feeds this "U" pipe is wide open. The small 1/4 vent line that goes to the coolant rez is un-hooked from the intake manifold and the hose is plugged with a bolt and a clamp. I have not removed the intake manifold at this time but there is no longer coolant flowing through it. Which brings me to my first question. If there is a outlet port to the EGR from the intake manifold there has to be a inlet to the intake manifold. What, and where, is feeding the intake manifold coolant?

On to the next disaster. The small aluminum casting on the other end of "U" shape pipe (again I don't have this piece im just referencing to other known egr delete kits ) is missing. There appears to normally be two bolts holding it down to the oil cooler housing cover. This casting, and both bolts are gone and I am left with a hole sticking straight up at me (this is where it gets real messy) with some kind of brass bushing perhaps installed into this hole which is then tapped with NPT, a barb fitting installed , and 3/4 " heater hose coming out, looped over the engine, and back down on the drivers side into a fitting that is installed into the side of the thermostat housing where it outlets to the rad.

Does this make any sense? Again if someone tells me how to post pics I will, or I can e-mail them to you. I am trying to return this to a proper EGR delete system without all this hack job so I have a few questions.

Is there normally a 1/2" NPT port on the side of the thermostat housing or is this something that has been modified?

Second, does anyone know which missing peices I need for the proper 'U' pipe to attach onto the top of the oil cooler housing?
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadnixon View Post
The coolant port at the bottom of the intake manifold that normally feeds this "U" pipe is wide open. The small 1/4 vent line that goes to the coolant rez is un-hooked from the intake manifold and the hose is plugged with a bolt and a clamp. I have not removed the intake manifold at this time but there is no longer coolant flowing through it. Which brings me to my first question. If there is a outlet port to the EGR from the intake manifold there has to be a inlet to the intake manifold. What, and where, is feeding the intake manifold coolant?
The coolant exits the oil cooler, then is fed to the egr cooler (or the u-shaped pipe) and then goes to the intake manifold. It exits the intake a few inches forward of that, where the intake/waterpump meet. That junction is basically dead center/front. You have some of the flow in reverse in your question.
My guess would be that the previous owner has something installed at the junction of the intake and waterpump. There is a thick "donut" o-ring there, or at least there is supposed to be one there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadnixon View Post
On to the next disaster. The small aluminum casting on the other end of "U" shape pipe (again I don't have this piece im just referencing to other known egr delete kits ) is missing. There appears to normally be two bolts holding it down to the oil cooler housing cover. This casting, and both bolts are gone and I am left with a hole sticking straight up at me (this is where it gets real messy) with some kind of brass bushing perhaps installed into this hole which is then tapped with NPT, a barb fitting installed , and 3/4 " heater hose coming out, looped over the engine, and back down on the drivers side into a fitting that is installed into the side of the thermostat housing where it outlets to the rad.
Ok, picture time. Here is a pic of the oil cooler cover. See where it says "coolant IN" and "coolant OUT"? The "coolant in" has a cover in place in the pic. This same cover is supposed to be on the "coolant out" port as well. On that piece your are apparently missing, there is a hose barb that a rubber hose slides on that feeds coolant to either the egr cooler or egr cooler delete.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chadnixon View Post
Does this make any sense? Again if someone tells me how to post pics I will, or I can e-mail them to you. I am trying to return this to a proper EGR delete system without all this hack job so I have a few questions.
The descriptions worked for me.
I know how to post pics, but will let someone a little more "tech savvy" explain it all. I'll stick to stuff under your hood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadnixon View Post
Is there normally a 1/2" NPT port on the side of the thermostat housing or is this something that has been modified?

Second, does anyone know which missing peices I need for the proper 'U' pipe to attach onto the top of the oil cooler housing?

First, nope. No such NPT port is supposed to be there.

Second, I would start by purchasing a proper EGR cooler delete kit and removing all of the modifications that were done to the cooling system.
By the sounds of it, you need that piece that goes on the oil cooler cover. The bad news is that I don't think that one part is sold separately, the good news is that there are a few members on here that have recently installed an oil cooling system that makes the oil cooler cover obsolete. If they haven't tossed it out, I'm sure you can pick it up fairly cheaply from one of them.
Next, you will have to go to Ford and buy a new "donut" gasket for the intake/waterpump junction.
The thermostat housing is a different matter altogether. Was the lower portion of the housing drilled and them had their creation installed low (which is part of the front cover casting) or is this part above that and could be easily removed by removing the thermostat and the housing in which it sits? It should be above the thermostat, if only for coolant flow when the engine is cold. If it is, that part is easily replaced by purchasing a new thermostat with the housing.
If you are going into the engine "this deep," I recommend replacing the oil cooler. You will literally be just a few bolts away from doing it.
Check out the step-by-step EGR/oil cooler link in my signature line for more information about all this.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:18 AM
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Hey thanks for the reply.

As far as the thermostat housing is concerned it looks as if they have drilled the hole and installed the fitting right where the coolant outlet hose is attached, almost at the same level as the ECT sensor, just 180' oposite that sensor. I have not taken it apart to see exactly where the thermostat sits in the housing but this fitting is pretty close to the outlet hose.

On another note and I have no idea if this might be releated but when I brought the truck home from the sellers house we noticed that the Coolant temp gauge is not reading. The gauge powers up but does not move. The engine WILL MAKE heat no problems but I am not sure if this problem started at the same time as the egr delete or not as I just bought the truck. It might be releated, might not. Is there a seperate sending unit for the guage other then the one mounted on the t-stat housing?

As for the oil cooler housing, thanks for the pic it helps. In that picture that you posted where it says coolant out and there is a large hole, mine has a brass peice sticking out of it that looks like it has a o-ring grove. My best guess is that the brass-looking peice sticking out from that hole is the element its self. They have tapped down the center of this peice and installed a pipe thread fitting and tossed the other small aluminum housing. I can track down the parts that I need without too much trouble but I just wanted to make sure that I am doing this proper.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:58 AM
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It sounds as though they drilled above the thermostat. That is good news, because as far as coolant flow goes, below the thermostat would have created a host of issues.
That small line coming off the top of the intake and goes back to the degas bottle? You want to restore that as well. It is a de-aeration port. That is the highest point in the cooling system and any air in the system gets burped out that way. Without it you have to force the air all the way through the system and then back to the degas bottle.
I recommend un-doing everything that was modified. If you are not returning it to a stock configuration, reroute the coolant that exits the oil cooler back to the degas bottle instead of going to the thermostat housing. At least this way any air in the system would return to the degas bottle instead of being pushed through the cooling system.
I would PM a member on here that goes by the screen-name "oldbuck." He just finished (or is still in the process of) installing an oil cooling system and that system does not use the oil cooler cover. He would probably part with the whole oil cooler cover for a very reasonable price (maybe just shipping..who knows).

If you need help visualizing what the stock configuration is, or just have a curiosity about how this whole engine is laid out, check out the following link for a whole book on your engine.

http://forddoctorsdts.com/articles/d...eTableBook.pdf

This link is for the 04 year engine, but it also shows some "running changes" that were made to the 03 engine.

http://forddoctorsdts.com/articles/d...eTableBook.pdf


The ECT (engine coolant temp) sensor is the sensor you see on the thermostat housing. That is either dead or the wiring to it is compromised somewhere.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:15 AM
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I have checked the wiring to that ECT sensor and I have 5 volts. I am assuming this is a 5 volt ref from the PCM? Some people are telling me that I will have another sensor just for the gauge? I have no yet tested the ohms of that sensor mounted on the t-stat housing to see if it's open or not because I was under the impression that it was only for the PCM and not the dash.

As for the oil cooler, and I correct in my thinking with the oil cooler element actually sticking through that hole in your picture labeled coolant out? I believe they have actually tapped the hole right in the element itself.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:41 AM
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There is only 1 ECT sensor on the 6.0

The top of the oil cooler does stick up into the oil cooler cover, just not very much. They might have been able to tap it.
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:19 AM
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Just tested ECT sensor and found that at room temp it's reading about 44k ohms. Is this a normal reading? Also found 5 volts supplied to sensor which I am assuming is normal if it's PCM controlled.
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