Tunes for diesels vs gassers - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Performance Parts Discussion What has or has not worked for you?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Enterko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,056
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Tunes for diesels vs gassers

Ok, I started out my fullsize truck life with a Chevy 1500HD two years ago. (previously I drove lifted, heavily modified toyota trucks) It had a 6.0l gas motor, and I thought it was pretty fast from the factory.

I put on exhaust.....not a big change
I put re-programmed with a diablo sport.....not a big change
I re-programmed with a hypertech....not a big change

Overall it was faster and shifted better, but marginally, and not worth the $$$$. I got tired of the 10-12 mpg, so I started looking for a diesel.

Soon I found a F-350 with a 6.0L Powerstroke.
It wasn't crazy fast, but had more torque the the 1500HD, and I liked the increase to 13-14mpg. I was much happier with the more capable truck, and after I read a little on this forum I decided to try some upgrades

After I flushed the coolant to ELC, I thought I would try to increase the hp and mileage.

Deleted the cat and added a turbo back exhaust.....HUGE CHANGE
Tuned with and SCT X3 (canned tunes).....EVEN LARGER CHANGE
Tuned with custom tunes.....EVEN LARGER CHANGE

I know a fair amount about the mechanics involved with engines both gas and diesel, and I still don't understand why there is so much of a difference between modifying the two.

The best that I can tell is that a diesel's power potential is reduced form the factory in order to increase the longevity, hence the HUGE power increase from aftermarket "tuning".

But why wouldn't a gas engine's power potential be decreased from the factory? Or rather why are gas engines tuned to near max power from the factory and diesel's aren't?

Does anyone know the answer?.......

2005 F-350 4x4 SRW CC LB
ARP Head Studs, EGR Delete, Insight CTS, 03' Turbo
4" MBRP Turbo back, SCT SF3, 6.4l banjo bolts
Leveled, 36" SS Irok's, 20" Moto Metal MO950
Enterko is offline  
post #2 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 07:56 PM
Powerstroke Techie

 
Lilpooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sassamansville, Pa
Posts: 9,787
Thanks: 95
Thanked 195 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
No spark plugs!!! JK!!, I would like to know also.

2004 F350 CC DRW King Ranch
X-3 tunes by DJ'S,QT,GH,ID. Gryphon FICM tunes, ARP studs,Stage 1turbo,ATS coolant recirc lines,Swamp's 48v ficm,coolant filter,AD2,Snow Perf stage II,EGR delete,4" turbo back straight pipe,S&Bintake,Quad "A" pillar autometer gauges,Suncoast Tri Disk Conv.,Billet input shaft,Suncoast superduty rebuild kit,Trans-go shift kit,Mag-Hytec trans pan,CFM+ elbow,ccv mod,15K reese 5er,17" LCD TV/DVD,Cobra 29 Nitewatch CB
Lilpooh is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 08:10 PM
scuffs *****

 
Tyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oakwood, OH
Posts: 5,270
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Tyler
The big amount of compression and huge margin to add massive amounts of fuel to that large area of compression, then throw in 30+PSI of boost and you've got a nut bustin' power house.

Sr. Engineering Tech/OPS Technician @ Your local cable company.
1997 7.3L PSD
| 4" MBRP Exhaust | S&B CAI | Torque Converter Lock-Up Switch | Exhaust Brake | FPR Shim |DB High Torque Starter | 188,000 Miles | Xtreme Daily Tune | SOLD

2014 Ford Fusion SE
| 1.6 EcoBoost | 6-Speed Manual | The basics and some goodies |
Tyler is offline  
post #4 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Enterko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,056
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler View Post
The big amount of compression and huge margin to add massive amounts of fuel to that large area of compression, then throw in 30+PSI of boost and you've got a nut bustin' power house.
I get that. The thing that I don't understand is this:

If the margin to add fuel exists from the factory, why don't they come from the factory that way. I know that 450hp and 750ft/lbs of torque is excessive from the factory, so why not create a motor that is smaller that produces more of it's potential power. (Not that I want a smaller engine, just using engineering logic)

I guess that the increase in power effects the longevity of our powerstroke's engine, and maybe that's the reason that they come from the factory with say 65% of their power being utilized(with tuning and exhaust alone). It's just curious that a gas engine doesn't come with the same percentage of potential power being utilized

2005 F-350 4x4 SRW CC LB
ARP Head Studs, EGR Delete, Insight CTS, 03' Turbo
4" MBRP Turbo back, SCT SF3, 6.4l banjo bolts
Leveled, 36" SS Irok's, 20" Moto Metal MO950
Enterko is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Enterko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,056
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
I also understand that towing with this much HP and Torque can damage the engine if not properly monitored, so I get how a factory vehicle wouldn't be set up in this manner.

What I don't understand is that a gas engine doesn't overheat or prematurely fail when towing, and it appears that they are using a larger portion of their potential power.

2005 F-350 4x4 SRW CC LB
ARP Head Studs, EGR Delete, Insight CTS, 03' Turbo
4" MBRP Turbo back, SCT SF3, 6.4l banjo bolts
Leveled, 36" SS Irok's, 20" Moto Metal MO950
Enterko is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 08:55 PM
Member
 
adambomb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 83
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
i'm not sure either. it seems with a gas truck you put on a tuner they advertise 30hp and on a diesel it's like at least 100hp (talking about diesels within the last 10 years) and the newer can be like 300hp.

i always thought it was that you can just push way more fuel in a diesel motor and like what was said above about the compression and turbo boost

2005 Lariat FX4 CCLB
*Industrial Injection Hybrid Turbo*90hp DDP Injectors*SCT X3*ARP Studs/Stock Gaskets*Banks Techni-Cooler & High Ram*FASS Fuel System*AFE Intake*4" MBRP Turbo Back Exhaust*AutoMeter PhantomII Boost/Pyro/Trans Gauges*2.5" ICON Coil Spring Suspension*35" Xtreme AT's*18" KMC Monsters*AMP Research Steps*Pioneer AVIC N3 Navigation-Rear View Camera-iPod- Voice Activation*
adambomb is offline  
post #7 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Buffalo444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Carlyle, IL
Posts: 2,166
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
more fuel always equals more power in a diesel, we're compression ignition. more fuel does not always equal more power in a gasser, they need the right combo of fuel air or it wont combust right. The reason diesels dont come from the factory with their full potential used is emissions, but thats something I'd argue another day. But bolt for bolt a diesel motor is FAR SUPERIOR to a gas motor, thats just how it is. not to mention us 7.3 guys are flex fuel stock

Jason

First rig: e99 F250 CCSB 4x4 auto, white, 388k miles: traded in
Then: 02 F350 RCLB SRW 4x4 zf6, silver, 201k miles, THREW A ROD : traded to Jake
Now: 96 F350 CCLB DRW 4x2 auto, red and silver/grey, 266k miles: rusty but trusty
Buffalo444 is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Enterko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,056
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
What does "flex fuel stock" mean?

2005 F-350 4x4 SRW CC LB
ARP Head Studs, EGR Delete, Insight CTS, 03' Turbo
4" MBRP Turbo back, SCT SF3, 6.4l banjo bolts
Leveled, 36" SS Irok's, 20" Moto Metal MO950
Enterko is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Buffalo444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Carlyle, IL
Posts: 2,166
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterko View Post
What does "flex fuel stock" mean?
by that I mean a 7.3 has all the tolerances internally to run not just on diesel fuel, but waste veggie oil, waste motor oil, auto tranny fluid, hydraulic oil.... just about anything oily really. Wouldn't try that in a 6.0 though, they don't have very much acceptance for "alternative fuels"

Jason

First rig: e99 F250 CCSB 4x4 auto, white, 388k miles: traded in
Then: 02 F350 RCLB SRW 4x4 zf6, silver, 201k miles, THREW A ROD : traded to Jake
Now: 96 F350 CCLB DRW 4x2 auto, red and silver/grey, 266k miles: rusty but trusty
Buffalo444 is offline  
post #10 of 33 Old 03-01-2011, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
Compression Ignition Addict
 
Enterko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,056
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Gotcha.

I am not well versed in alternate fuels, but I don't see what would hinder a 6.0 and not a 7.3. Both utilize a HPOP, which is what I thought was a good thing for alternate fuels

With that being said I beleive what you say, but just want to know what specifically makes the 6.0 bad for those fuels.....I'm definitely not trying to start a pi$$ing contest, just curious.

2005 F-350 4x4 SRW CC LB
ARP Head Studs, EGR Delete, Insight CTS, 03' Turbo
4" MBRP Turbo back, SCT SF3, 6.4l banjo bolts
Leveled, 36" SS Irok's, 20" Moto Metal MO950
Enterko is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome