Sinister Diesel EGR Delete. (review)

[PGreenSVT]

Originally Posted by wheels4

I also asked this guy(owner of the diesel place, which happens to have a great reputation and very knowledgable guy) about the EGR delete and he said it was a bad idea... and that they won't touch them.

Now... i just topped off the coolant the other day and i noticed white residue by the cap. so, i'm seriously considering doing the EGR delete kit now. hence, all the research on here and being in this thread.

what i don't understand... is why do people keep talking about oil cooler's when they are talking about EGR delete kits? also... how is an EGR delete kit going to effect my truck in the long run and... how is it going to effect me towing my toy hauler?

use of my truck: i drive my truck daily... and i pull a toy hauler(roughly 10k lbs) about 5-7 times a year. The truck is completely stock...

I like to be well informed on this stuff b/c i dive in so any insight would be appreciated.

and if i need to start a new thread.. i will.

First off find a new mechanic as he can't be very knowledgeable about 6.0l Fords if he says deleting the EGR and cooler is a bad idea. Your truck will thank you and be more dependable if you delete it, period.

As for the talk about oil coolers when discussing the EGR problem it goes like this. Our trucks really need a coolant filter because there is a lot of crap in the coolant like left over casting sand that comes off the interior coolant passages and circulates with the coolant. This is a bad thing. It eats up water pumps but here's the thing you are looking for. In the little passages of the oil cooler this debris comes out of suspension and clogs up the coolant passages in the oil cooler restricting coolant flow. Again a bad thing. with the restricted coolant flow the EGR cooler can't flow enough coolant to effectively carry off the heat of the exhaust gasses passing through it, especially at higher EGTs like when really getting on it, or towing your 10K toy hauler up a good incline. This causes the coolant to flash in the EGR cooler causing the puking you see at the degass bottle and eventually the egr cooler to rupture and the heads overheat, stretch head bolts, and blow the head gaskets. The moral of the story is rebuild the oil cooler if your egr cooler fails or you'll be replacing it again soon.

So in closing, delete the egr and egr cooler. Rebuild the oil cooler. Install a coolant filter system ( you can make up your own or buy an kit from a number of vendors) and that will take care of those issues permanently. If you need to replace head gaskets install ARP studs at that time and you should have a fairly bullet proof 6.0.

In the long haul your truck will run better and you will not coke up the intake and combustion chambers by cycling exhaust soot back into your engine.

[Goose350]

Originally Posted by wheels4

wanting to know if there is a need to do anything else when i do the EGR delete...

issue: i took my truck in about 2months ago b/c it wouldn't start when it was 25 degrees outside... and i had oil dripping from the bellhousing. i was also loosing coolant. turned out, my airfilter was clogged(guys at express lube told me it was fine 2000 miles ago from this point) and it was somehow causing oil to spew. anyways... i had a crack in the degas bottle, so they installed a new one. he said he checked the HG and everything looked fine... and he assumed it was my EGR cooler... but, there was no way for him to tell if it was bad or not. He said that i should just keep an eye on the coolant. I also asked this guy(owner of the diesel place, which happens to have a great reputation and very knowledgable guy) about the EGR delete and he said it was a bad idea... and that they won't touch them.

Now... i just topped off the coolant the other day and i noticed white residue by the cap. so, i'm seriously considering doing the EGR delete kit now. hence, all the research on here and being in this thread.

what i don't understand... is why do people keep talking about oil cooler's when they are talking about EGR delete kits? also... how is an EGR delete kit going to effect my truck in the long run and... how is it going to effect me towing my toy hauler?

use of my truck: i drive my truck daily... and i pull a toy hauler(roughly 10k lbs) about 5-7 times a year. The truck is completely stock...

I like to be well informed on this stuff b/c i dive in so any insight would be appreciated.

and if i need to start a new thread.. i will.

PM me if you still want to talk to someone on the phone.

[wheels4]

Originally Posted by PGreenSVT

First off find a new mechanic as he can't be very knowledgeable about 6.0l Fords if he says deleting the EGR and cooler is a bad idea. Your truck will thank you and be more dependable if you delete it, period.

As for the talk about oil coolers when discussing the EGR problem it goes like this. Our trucks really need a coolant filter because there is a lot of crap in the coolant like left over casting sand that comes off the interior coolant passages and circulates with the coolant. This is a bad thing. It eats up water pumps but here's the thing you are looking for. In the little passages of the oil cooler this debris comes out of suspension and clogs up the coolant passages in the oil cooler restricting coolant flow. Again a bad thing. with the restricted coolant flow the EGR cooler can't flow enough coolant to effectively carry off the heat of the exhaust gasses passing through it, especially at higher EGTs like when really getting on it, or towing your 10K toy hauler up a good incline. This causes the coolant to flash in the EGR cooler causing the puking you see at the degass bottle and eventually the egr cooler to rupture and the heads overheat, stretch head bolts, and blow the head gaskets. The moral of the story is rebuild the oil cooler if your egr cooler fails or you'll be replacing it again soon.

So in closing, delete the egr and egr cooler. Rebuild the oil cooler. Install a coolant filter system ( you can make up your own or buy an kit from a number of vendors) and that will take care of those issues permanently. If you need to replace head gaskets install ARP studs at that time and you should have a fairly bullet proof 6.0.

In the long haul your truck will run better and you will not coke up the intake and combustion chambers by cycling exhaust soot back into your engine.

thanks for the explanation... makes sense now. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.


and Goose... thanks, but i think PGreen got it for me.

[The Figurehead]

PGReenSVT, You said it very clear; thanks. Tuned trucks/towing = Hi EGT's = coolant silicates = heat & 'sand' kill egr cooler = 'sand' kills oil cooler. dead egr cooler = leaky coolant enters cylinder heads = head bolts stretched and head gaskets blown. Clogged oil cooler = self explanatory (not good). Also note Tuning 'may' increase turbo pressures resulting in a 'popped' or split (plastic/aluminum combo) oem turbo innercooler. THESE THINGS PRODUCE THE BAD RAP THE 6.0L faces. Fix these things (and a few others) and you have a solid powerhouse motor.

Oil/Coolant temps should be within 5-10 degrees F of each other = the egr-delete drops oil/coolant temps around 10 degrees F and drops egt's by 100-200 degrees F. Cooler motor = longer life. And then there's the 'little' thing about the soot going back through your intake, which is eliminated with the egr-delete.

I have a 6 month old rebuilt motor, and my Banks intake has a nice black-soot covering. I'm gonna stop the soot-buildup progression later this month (sinister egr delete), even tho I have the Bulletproof EGR Cooler, which is a good remedy for the OEM EGR Cooler.

Also note, the high EGT's in the egr cooler may cause the silicates in the coolant to form, thus even more "sand" like crap appearing in the coolant. Many many people from different forums have noted that AFTER many years of truck use, and the block casting 'sand' is 'still' running around in the coolant, not necessarily. This "sand" in the coolant can also be the silicates formed by high EGT's in the EGR Cooler. This isn't understood by many, but get your coolant to 1200-1400 degrees F, and then we see some interesting things that 99.99% of engines cannot produce. Anyway, as you noted, PGReenSVT, this 'sand' clogs the oil cooler and the OEM EGR Cooler.

I am in CA, with emissions coming, and I have read many who smog their tuned/EGR Deleted/Cat Deleted truck without any issues. The problem that many people/mechanics have with the EGR Delete, is that this is 'messing around' (or however you want to put it) with a federally mandated smog 'reducing' device. I'm not saying anything about the positives of getting rid of it, or the 'ethics' of removing something they want you to have. Granted, some of these "mandates' cause us more grief and engine failure than the arguable 'good' they do.

They (the gov't) would also like to take away my guns and take/tax away all my money; doesn't mean it's right nor should it be done.

By the way, my 6.0l with 55k miles (when i bought it) was about to die with ALL of the above issues. We fixed everything, minus the EGR delete, and it is a very reliable & fun truck to drive.

edit: just got the sinister kit from ups minutes ago. looks nice. installation to come soon............

[smlarkin]

Everything that was covered above is everything I found too when researching if to delete it or not. It is highly recommended to rebuild the oil cooler at the time of doing the delete. Since you will already be in the engine that far it is good to do it because of the problem that was mentioned above with the cooler getting plugged from the coolant. I found a kit from a member here on the forum who had a few extra but I have seen them on Ebay for much less than Ford, I was told $700-$800 from them and seen them on Ebay for around $300-$500. If you have the $ to do it and also to do new intake gaskets and the o-ring from intake to water pump housing I always say new is better than old smashed gasket material but like I said if you have the $ otherwise who knows your old gaskets etc. might be just fine and no need to replace. Just take your time with the oil cooler and follow the correct specs for the bolts, don't over tighten them. Its really not hard just time consuming. I just finished mine so let me know if you have any questions. Good Luck

[scotty2280]

i noticed the 10 degrees cooler oil and coolant, but i haven't noticed the cooler egts. definitely like the sinister kit thou!

[The Figurehead]

scotty2280, i'm jealous just hearing about your installed kit. As for EGT's dropping, that's what I read in an article in a Dieselpowermag.com that did it to Donahoe Racing F250, or something like that.

EGR Block-Off Kit - Off Road Trucks - Diesel Power Magazine

In most instances, the factory EGR system works during low to medium throttle and stops on full-throttle/high-demand driving. The difference without the EGR was noticed almost instantly as we came to our first hill. We were driving about 70 miles per hour between 1,800 to 2,000 rpm, and the truck lugged a little to get up the hill. But it didn't downshift. Normally, the truck would drop a gear to make it up this hill. In addition to having more low-end power, the exhaust temperatures dropped between 50 to 150 degrees.

Another wonderful advantage of this upgrade is the lack of soot entering into our intake. Typically, soot builds up on the intake radiuses, which causes turbulence and eventually a reduction in horsepower. The soot also ends up getting into the engine oil. As the soot particles mix with the engine oil and eventually find their way through the engine oiling system, the tiny little particles cause the engine bearing to wear faster.

After we were done with our off-road testing, we were pleased to note that our 6.0L test truck never missed a beat. Best of all, we can now run the truck hard without the worry of boiling coolant or blowing headgaskets.

A NICE Article

[PGreenSVT]

Figurehead, great additon to my post. Thanks for that additional info. The 6.0 gets a bad rap because of the poorly designed crap they had to throw on for emissions. Take care of the issues and it is a reliable powerhouse especially with a good custom tune. My truck is a blast to drive. I can easily smoke my 275/65/20's through 3rd gear. not bad for an 8500lb + diesel truck.

[MSGDAVE]

I had to replace my oil cooler because it was plugged (loosing coolant too) I welded a plug in both sides of the EGR cooler and replaced it so it still looks stock.

[The Figurehead]

MSGDAVE, Thanks for your service to us all. I can say I greatly appreciate what you guys do. If it weren't for you all, we wouldn't enjoy what we have.

The (little) problem with the egr blocking disc, or plugging/welding the egr cooler closed, as you did, is that the heat is readily transferred to the coolant & oil through the egr cooler, which is still connected to the exhaust up-pipe.

GRANTED THIS IS BETTER THAN DOING NOTHING, in fact it is probably better than the Bulletproof egr cooler i have, because you have (secretly) blocked the soot from getting back into the intake. YOU DID THE NEXT BEST THING BY WELDING IT CLOSED AND STILL LOOKING STOCK.

PGreenSVT, I hear you. I was on the freeway stuck in a slowdown to Angel Stadium, going about 30-40mph, and an adjacent lane opened up. I lit up my 40's (for about 5 seconds) pulling into the open lane @ 35mph. I really love driving my truck. In fact, my wife drove it for the first time (I bought it and have been building it for about a year) last night. She calls it "the beast" and thought it was really fun to drive.

I've loved trucks since I was in high school, building my own engines and such, but I never thought owning a big diesel would be so much fun, with a lot of satisfaction with the work i've done to it. Granted it's just a truck, but..... & My 3 older kids (7,5,3) love driving in it, too.