ECT vs EOT - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.0L Ford Excursion Discussion This forum is for topics relating to the excursion only.

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post #1 of 33 Old 03-15-2017, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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ECT vs EOT

60 degrees f out. ECT 179 EOT 189. No load flat surface 30 miles. Normal?

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post #2 of 33 Old 03-15-2017, 05:59 PM
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A 10deg delta is nothing to worry about but your ECT is too low. Replace your thermostat and run it again. You might find that your delta is even lower.

Go OEM.
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post #3 of 33 Old 03-16-2017, 05:12 PM
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Ford says 10 is fail-ing and 15 is fail-ed. With a trailer you'll properly see 13-14+. I'd start preparing for an oil cooler. I've diagnosed and monitored thousands of these things for oil coolers. A good cooler will follow your ECT all the way up to operating temp, wherever it ends up being on your truck, and should stay within 3-4 degrees unloaded, 6-8 while pulling and pulling hills. The excursion I just bought for my wife a couple weeks ago sits at 192 coolant and 192 oil at 75-80 mph for 60 miles straight. The cooler is simply a heat exchanger, and does not care what temps are. It always cools to the best of its abilities. Call it my opinion, but it's an opinion based off of literally hundreds of trucks that I have diagnosed a failing or failed oil cooler, replaced it, and on test drive have a 0-2 degree split whereas prior to the new oil cooler it was 10+ (up to 50-60). Your thermostat is slightly bad, the truck should be 192+ however that WILL NOT AFFECT the oil coolers abilities to cool whatsoever. With that being said, plan on doing an oil cooler and thermostat in the near future, maybe before it gets too hot outside.

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post #4 of 33 Old 03-16-2017, 05:41 PM
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Check delta with ECT at operating temp. That's 190.
If you absolutely can not get it to 190, replace the thermostat and test again

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post #5 of 33 Old 03-16-2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickjames525 View Post
Ford says 10 is fail-ing and 15 is fail-ed. With a trailer you'll properly see 13-14+. I'd start preparing for an oil cooler. ...
Where does Ford say that? I am unaware of any TSB of Ford document that mentions some threshold of 10F. Since you are recommending that the OP have a shop do between $900-$1400 worth of work, having solid documentation on the criterion that you are using would be a good thing. Please post your Ford reference.

What I am aware of is Ford TSB 09-8-3 regarding overheating and coolant loss. It says:
  • If you have a greater than 15F delta and coolant loss, replace the oil cooler.
  • If you have less than 15F delta and coolant loss, look for failed head gaskets.

It makes no mention of doing anything if someone has a less-than-15F delta and no coolant loss - such as the OP's situation. ...and it makes no mention at all of a 10F delta.

In fact, in the 5 years that I've owned my truck, I don't recall ever having a delta lower than 10F at any speed greater than 60mph. E-ver.


Also, regarding this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickjames525 View Post
...Your thermostat is slightly bad, the truck should be 192+ however that WILL NOT AFFECT the oil coolers abilities to cool whatsoever. ...
You may want to look on page 3 of the TSB that I attached below. In it, Ford says this regarding the delta test:

"FOR ACCURATE TEST RESULTS, ECT TEMPERATURE MUST BE GREATER THAN 190°F (88 °C) WHEN MEASURING THE ECT AND EOT MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL."

Ford used the all caps, not me. I think that they did that because the point is REALLY IMPORTANT. This is consistent with @kaya 's recommendation. He's a real smart dude.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ford TSB09-8-3 - Overheating-Coolant Loss.pdf (341.4 KB, 19 views)

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post #6 of 33 Old 03-16-2017, 07:23 PM
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Haha. I wasn't going to say it, but I suppose it's in the interest of keeping information accurate.
Being that the engine oil in a HEUI system is utilized as hydraulic fluid, and that pressurizing a fluid will increase it's temperature, it will absolutely rise faster than ECT. That's the reason ECT must be at operating temp to rationalize.
Op hasn't actually specified how long the truck had been run. It may just not have been up to temp yet.

Dj, you're too kind.
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In relation, I just happen to do this for a living, that's all lol.
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post #7 of 33 Old 03-16-2017, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaya View Post
Haha. I wasn't going to say it, but I suppose it's in the interest of keeping information accurate.
Being that the engine oil in a HEUI system is utilized as hydraulic fluid, and that pressurizing a fluid will increase it's temperature, it will absolutely rise faster than ECT. That's the reason ECT must be at operating temp to rationalize.
...
Okay... so this is great info. I'd like to use it to bounce something off of you:

I have 4.88 diff gearing. At 65mph, a stock 3.73 is running at 1900RPM. At 65mph, I'm at 2500RPM. I have considered it obvious that I saw higher deltas at 65mph because the higher RPM means more heat being injected into the oil and coolant. I figured that the oil simply absorbed more heat because it was cooling the more rapidly firing injectors. That seemed a more stark change in heat input as compared to the increased cooling of the cylinders by the coolant.

But... From what you said above, it seems more reasonable to conclude that the oil isn't absorbing heat from the injectors as much as it being heated by the HEUI pressurization process and - at higher RPMs - the corresponding higher pressure is the cause for the higher oil temp and, so, higher delta.

Is that conclusion correct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaya View Post
...Op hasn't actually specified how long the truck had been run. It may just not have been up to temp yet. ...
You are correct. I assumed from the 30 minutes of driving that it would be up to temp. That 30 minutes could mean anything. As such, your qualification regarding the stat change was better than my demand that it be changed. Lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaya View Post
... Dj, you're too kind.
"Everyone is a genius. But when we judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will believe it's whole life that it is not"
Favorite Einstein quote.
In relation, I just happen to do this for a living, that's all lol.
That's a great quote. I'm going to share it with my daughter as she sometimes forgets all that she is good at when she encounters something that she is not-so-good at.

I do realize that the fact that you do this professionally may skew the ORG IQ curve. ...but - if nothing else - quotes like that and the one in your sig suggest to me that you know more than just trucks..

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post #8 of 33 Old 03-16-2017, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaguire View Post
Okay... so this is great info. I'd like to use it to bounce something off of you:

I have 4.88 diff gearing. At 65mph, a stock 3.73 is running at 1900RPM. At 65mph, I'm at 2500RPM. I have considered it obvious that I saw higher deltas at 65mph because the higher RPM means more heat being injected into the oil and coolant. I figured that the oil simply absorbed more heat because it was cooling the more rapidly firing injectors. That seemed a more stark change in heat input as compared to the increased cooling of the cylinders by the coolant.

But... From what you said above, it seems more reasonable to conclude that the oil isn't absorbing heat from the injectors as much as it being heated by the HEUI pressurization process and - at higher RPMs - the corresponding higher pressure is the cause for the higher oil temp and, so, higher delta.

Is that conclusion correct?
I'd say that ICP is probably a greater contributor to higher eot, given those variables, sure.


Quote:
You are correct. I assumed from the 30 minutes of driving that it would be up to temp. That 30 minutes could mean anything. As such, your qualification regarding the stat change was better than my demand that it be changed. Lol.
Hmm he did say 30 miles. Which could be about half hour. Either way, it's a fair amount of driving. I'd still drive it a little longer tho.

Quote:
That's a great quote. I'm going to share it with my daughter as she sometimes forgets all that she is good at when she encounters something that she is not-so-good at.

I do realize that the fact that you do this professionally may skew the ORG IQ curve. ...but - if nothing else - quotes like that and the one in your sig suggest to me that you know more than just trucks..
Words to live by, my friend.
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post #9 of 33 Old 03-17-2017, 04:14 AM
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Thanks @kaya . ICP was precisely the point that I was trying to make. I just like lotsa words...

I remember reading an article on oil cooling injectors. I think that it stuck with me when I was considering differing deltas.

The connection of higher diff gearing to RPM to ICP to delta makes better sense in terms of the underlying physics, thermodynamics, and heat transfer. Good stuff.
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post #10 of 33 Old 03-17-2017, 05:45 AM
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What's interesting in that bulliten is that a new oil cooler kit is available that makes the oil cooler servicable and that replacement of the plugged cooler is "no longer required". It almost infers that there was a workaround to having to pull and replace the cooler in the block valley using some other design with a bypass hose to ensure egr recieved enough coolant flow? Maybe a factory remotely located cooler in the radiator hose? Wouldn't that be nice.

Probably would have saved ford a ton of warranty money if you spent a couple of hours installing a new cooler rather than the time removal,and replacement of the cooler required. Maybe something was in the works but never got released?

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Last edited by Rossterman; 03-17-2017 at 05:49 AM.
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