just bought: cranking, but not starting, no codes - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-02-2009, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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just bought: cranking, but not starting, no codes

Dear experts!
I have a problem, maybe someone of you has some hints for me. A friend of mine just bought an 03 6.0 f-250 powerstroke, which here in Austria is a quite rare truck. When he checked this car before bying it could be started but was not running fine. So some mechanic of his changed the 3 fuel filters - and now, the rigg does not start at all.
So I was called to check it out. It cranks perfectly, some cylinders fire up (which makes the starter disengage) but refuses to run. With some starter booster fluid we could manage to run the engine for a few seconds, so from the mechanical side, everything should be fine. As it is quite warm glow plug operation cannot be the cause.

I checked the codes (Auto Enginuity Tool), but no major codes stored (one old "water in fuel" code and something total unrelated.
The software triggered injector test said, that everything is o.k.

What I can see is that someone sealed the fuel regulation valve with a lot of sealant, I opend it and also found a lot of sealant inside, so I assume these sealant parts could be washed somewhere where it shouldŽnt be.
I have no possibility to check the fuel pressure yet, but at the fuel pressure test port it seems there ist alot of pressure when trying to hold it shut whith my thumb :-)

As this truck is very rare where I live I cannot swap parts with a similiar truck to narrow down what could be the cause.

Any suggestions what to look for (except fuel pressure)? Any bleeding procedures necessary?

Thanks and greetings from Austria!

Eugen
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post #2 of 30 Old 05-03-2009, 12:24 PM
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First of all, if the intended use of this truck is to live its entire life in Austria, may I suggest that the owner order a whole box of FA-1778, FD-4604 and FL-2016 filters to used as needed. I don't know what the fuel quality is like in Austria, but I will say that the cetane rating of the fuel needs to be in the low to mid 40s for this engine to run at its optimum. That being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the owner order a whole case of Ford/Motorcraft PM-22-B and PM-23-B additives as well as the Ford/Motorcraft 10W30 CJ-4 rated engine oil. I am certain that any Ford dealer will jump at giving you a huge discount if you order it in bulk quantities.
Now, in answer to your question, you need to install a scan tool that can read live data, and pull up the following information listed below:

FICM_L: should read 11.0 to 12.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

FICM_M: should read 47.5 to 48.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

FICM_V: should read 11.0 to 12.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

ICP V: should read 0.18 to 0.25 volts at key-on/engine-off and climb to minimum 0.8 volts while you crank the engine.

ICP: should read 0 psi at key-on/engine-off and climb to minimum 500 psi while you crank the engine over.

IPR Duty Cycle: should read 14.84% at key-on/engine-off and climb to around 50% as you crank the engine over.

FICM_SYNC: should read "NO" at key-on/engine-off and change to "YES" when you crank the engine over.

SYNC: should read "NO" at key-on/engine-off and change to "YES" when you crank the engine over.

V_PWR: should indicate around 12 volts at key-on/engine-off and drop to no lower than 9.5 volts while cranking the engine over.

RPM: should indicate around 175 to 200 as you crank the engine over. Any slower, and it's not cranking fast enough.

Fuel pressure spec is 56 psi, and no lower than 45 psi under load. This can be measured by connecting a fuel pressure gauge to the secondary fuel filter housing port that requires a 6mm allen key to remove.

EVERYTHING I've listed above, is what is needed to achieve a 6.0L engine that starts. You now need to find out which of the above is missing.

http://www.yorkdaleford.com/service.html

Ford Diesel/Senior/Master Tech who placed 2nd overall in Ontario on the Fix-It-Right-First-Visit score for 2010

....who works at a dealership that now employs SOME half decent looking female employees since they overhauled most of the administrative staff

....but STILL loves hot women with big boobies

....and STILL hates working on E-Series with 6.0L
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post #3 of 30 Old 05-03-2009, 02:48 PM
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post #4 of 30 Old 05-03-2009, 05:37 PM
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with the Auto Enginuity Tool you will need the enhanced ford package and it shoudl cover all the spec that m-chan has layed out if you dont have the extra ford package you will need to order t or that tool is useless to the truck

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post #5 of 30 Old 05-03-2009, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, thank you all for your quick replys! Especially the list with all the correct values of the various sensors is very helpfull! And yes, I do have the Ford Expansion of the Auto Enginuity Scan Tool, which reads all the sensors and values, so I will try to figure out what is wrong when trying to start.

Thanks and greeting from abroad!

Eugen
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post #6 of 30 Old 05-03-2009, 10:28 PM
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post #7 of 30 Old 05-03-2009, 10:45 PM
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Your posts amaze me ! and your willingness to help impresses me !
i couldnt agree with you anymore..hes like a machine..built ford tough machine

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post #8 of 30 Old 05-08-2009, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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Well, finally I was able to measure the values in the key on / engine off and in the cranking condition.
These are the values, which are different to the values you stated, everything else (including fuel pressure) is fine:

- ICP V: Off: 0,16 Cranking: 0,57 (instead of 0,8 Volts)
- ICP: 368 PSI (instead of 500 psi)
- RPM: 135 RPM (should be +175 RPM)

These 3 Values are a bit lower than they should - I am not sure, if this will help me find a solution for this problem.

I am still trying to find the FICM-Synch and IPR Duty Cycle values in the Scan tool, as soon as I get that, I will repost them.

Thanks for your help!

Eugen
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post #9 of 30 Old 05-08-2009, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eseethal View Post
- ICP V: Off: 0,16 Cranking: 0,57 (instead of 0,8 Volts)
- ICP: 368 PSI (instead of 500 psi)
- RPM: 135 RPM (should be +175 RPM)

These 3 Values are a bit lower than they should - I am not sure, if this will help me find a solution for this problem.
Okay, first off how are the condition of your batteries? That's not terribly slow, but it would help if you would ensure both batteries are perfectly charged to start. Next, I would order an ICP sensor and connector from Ford. The part numbers are 3C3Z-9F838-EA and 5C3Z-12224-A. The ICP sensor on 2003 model years is a bit of a pain to access, but I can provide more information on that when needed. 9-1/2 out of 10 2003 model years will fail the ICP sensor, so this problem is not uncommon.

http://www.yorkdaleford.com/service.html

Ford Diesel/Senior/Master Tech who placed 2nd overall in Ontario on the Fix-It-Right-First-Visit score for 2010

....who works at a dealership that now employs SOME half decent looking female employees since they overhauled most of the administrative staff

....but STILL loves hot women with big boobies

....and STILL hates working on E-Series with 6.0L
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post #10 of 30 Old 05-12-2009, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Now I also got the values for IPR Duty Cycle: 14,84% key on/engine off, the cranking value is 84,77% (so more than it should be).

The batteries are fully charged, the condition is not really known, but I guess it should be sufficient power to start the engine.

Replacing the ICP sensor + connector is a good suggestion, but I doubt, that this is the cause for the "engine not running" condition - or is this assumption wrong?

Is there anything else that could prevent the engine from starting, anything you can read from my various sensor values?

Greetings from Austria!

Eugen
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