just bought: cranking, but not starting, no codes - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:16 PM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
just bought: cranking, but not starting, no codes

Dear experts!
I have a problem, maybe someone of you has some hints for me. A friend of mine just bought an 03 6.0 f-250 powerstroke, which here in Austria is a quite rare truck. When he checked this car before bying it could be started but was not running fine. So some mechanic of his changed the 3 fuel filters - and now, the rigg does not start at all.
So I was called to check it out. It cranks perfectly, some cylinders fire up (which makes the starter disengage) but refuses to run. With some starter booster fluid we could manage to run the engine for a few seconds, so from the mechanical side, everything should be fine. As it is quite warm glow plug operation cannot be the cause.

I checked the codes (Auto Enginuity Tool), but no major codes stored (one old "water in fuel" code and something total unrelated.
The software triggered injector test said, that everything is o.k.

What I can see is that someone sealed the fuel regulation valve with a lot of sealant, I opend it and also found a lot of sealant inside, so I assume these sealant parts could be washed somewhere where it shouldŽnt be.
I have no possibility to check the fuel pressure yet, but at the fuel pressure test port it seems there ist alot of pressure when trying to hold it shut whith my thumb :-)

As this truck is very rare where I live I cannot swap parts with a similiar truck to narrow down what could be the cause.

Any suggestions what to look for (except fuel pressure)? Any bleeding procedures necessary?

Thanks and greetings from Austria!

Eugen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:24 PM
Powerstroke Techie

 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,584
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
First of all, if the intended use of this truck is to live its entire life in Austria, may I suggest that the owner order a whole box of FA-1778, FD-4604 and FL-2016 filters to used as needed. I don't know what the fuel quality is like in Austria, but I will say that the cetane rating of the fuel needs to be in the low to mid 40s for this engine to run at its optimum. That being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the owner order a whole case of Ford/Motorcraft PM-22-B and PM-23-B additives as well as the Ford/Motorcraft 10W30 CJ-4 rated engine oil. I am certain that any Ford dealer will jump at giving you a huge discount if you order it in bulk quantities.
Now, in answer to your question, you need to install a scan tool that can read live data, and pull up the following information listed below:

FICM_L: should read 11.0 to 12.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

FICM_M: should read 47.5 to 48.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

FICM_V: should read 11.0 to 12.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

ICP V: should read 0.18 to 0.25 volts at key-on/engine-off and climb to minimum 0.8 volts while you crank the engine.

ICP: should read 0 psi at key-on/engine-off and climb to minimum 500 psi while you crank the engine over.

IPR Duty Cycle: should read 14.84% at key-on/engine-off and climb to around 50% as you crank the engine over.

FICM_SYNC: should read "NO" at key-on/engine-off and change to "YES" when you crank the engine over.

SYNC: should read "NO" at key-on/engine-off and change to "YES" when you crank the engine over.

V_PWR: should indicate around 12 volts at key-on/engine-off and drop to no lower than 9.5 volts while cranking the engine over.

RPM: should indicate around 175 to 200 as you crank the engine over. Any slower, and it's not cranking fast enough.

Fuel pressure spec is 56 psi, and no lower than 45 psi under load. This can be measured by connecting a fuel pressure gauge to the secondary fuel filter housing port that requires a 6mm allen key to remove.

EVERYTHING I've listed above, is what is needed to achieve a 6.0L engine that starts. You now need to find out which of the above is missing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 05-03-2009, 02:48 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,157
Thanks: 65
Thanked 185 Times in 176 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Your posts amaze me ! and your willingness to help impresses me !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 05-03-2009, 05:37 PM
Powerstroke.org Fanatic
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
with the Auto Enginuity Tool you will need the enhanced ford package and it shoudl cover all the spec that m-chan has layed out if you dont have the extra ford package you will need to order t or that tool is useless to the truck
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:24 PM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Wow, thank you all for your quick replys! Especially the list with all the correct values of the various sensors is very helpfull! And yes, I do have the Ford Expansion of the Auto Enginuity Scan Tool, which reads all the sensors and values, so I will try to figure out what is wrong when trying to start.

Thanks and greeting from abroad!

Eugen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:28 PM
COLLEGE KID
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to lifewitlooie
A Diesel tech came out of nowhere like Superman and saved the day lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:45 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toms River, NJ
Posts: 3,720
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 03f250stroke
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMANN View Post
Your posts amaze me ! and your willingness to help impresses me !
i couldnt agree with you anymore..hes like a machine..built ford tough machine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 05-08-2009, 04:26 AM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Well, finally I was able to measure the values in the key on / engine off and in the cranking condition.
These are the values, which are different to the values you stated, everything else (including fuel pressure) is fine:

- ICP V: Off: 0,16 Cranking: 0,57 (instead of 0,8 Volts)
- ICP: 368 PSI (instead of 500 psi)
- RPM: 135 RPM (should be +175 RPM)

These 3 Values are a bit lower than they should - I am not sure, if this will help me find a solution for this problem.

I am still trying to find the FICM-Synch and IPR Duty Cycle values in the Scan tool, as soon as I get that, I will repost them.

Thanks for your help!

Eugen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 05-08-2009, 06:00 AM
Powerstroke Techie

 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,584
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by eseethal View Post
- ICP V: Off: 0,16 Cranking: 0,57 (instead of 0,8 Volts)
- ICP: 368 PSI (instead of 500 psi)
- RPM: 135 RPM (should be +175 RPM)

These 3 Values are a bit lower than they should - I am not sure, if this will help me find a solution for this problem.
Okay, first off how are the condition of your batteries? That's not terribly slow, but it would help if you would ensure both batteries are perfectly charged to start. Next, I would order an ICP sensor and connector from Ford. The part numbers are 3C3Z-9F838-EA and 5C3Z-12224-A. The ICP sensor on 2003 model years is a bit of a pain to access, but I can provide more information on that when needed. 9-1/2 out of 10 2003 model years will fail the ICP sensor, so this problem is not uncommon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:30 AM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Now I also got the values for IPR Duty Cycle: 14,84% key on/engine off, the cranking value is 84,77% (so more than it should be).

The batteries are fully charged, the condition is not really known, but I guess it should be sufficient power to start the engine.

Replacing the ICP sensor + connector is a good suggestion, but I doubt, that this is the cause for the "engine not running" condition - or is this assumption wrong?

Is there anything else that could prevent the engine from starting, anything you can read from my various sensor values?

Greetings from Austria!

Eugen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors