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  #1  
Old 04-07-2009, 03:43 PM
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Get a load of this dealer crap

My colleague and i were going to fix a piece of equipment when suddenly the 05 6.0 just died.... No warning just boom died. I didnt wanna guess at the thing so i dragged it to the dealer with my 94 F-350 7.3 Mechanical Diesel So they've been diagnosing the thing for a few days now. First the put a crank sensor in it nothing..... then they put a cam sensor in it nothing..... then they said they had to "Speak to their engineers" and they said it was a PCM related problem. They put one of those in and still nothing. Now i spoke to the tech in person and he now believes that the tone gear on the crankshaft, which remind you is on a keyway and just floats there has spun the keyway and TDC is reading wrong because the gear is not in place. He tried to pull the crank sensor out of the block and turn the gear with a screwdriver but he said it could have just siezed up.......

My question is has anyone ever heard of this? Or is this guy just guessing and running around in circles... Again the truck is an 05 model. Also speaking to the guy he used to work on transmissions he just moved to diesels recently. Has anyone ever heard of the gear on the crank or if anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I also read some other threads and there is no oil leak on the rear of the engine STC sensor i believe it is? So any suggestions guys thanks
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:51 PM
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Someone in the know will show up and answer this for ya'.
Craig
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2009, 03:22 PM
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Does anyone know..... Please?
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  #4  
Old 04-08-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricemiester View Post
My colleague and i were going to fix a piece of equipment when suddenly the 05 6.0 just died.... No warning just boom died. I didnt wanna guess at the thing so i dragged it to the dealer with my 94 F-350 7.3 Mechanical Diesel So they've been diagnosing the thing for a few days now. First the put a crank sensor in it nothing..... then they put a cam sensor in it nothing..... then they said they had to "Speak to their engineers" and they said it was a PCM related problem. They put one of those in and still nothing. Now i spoke to the tech in person and he now believes that the tone gear on the crankshaft, which remind you is on a keyway and just floats there has spun the keyway and TDC is reading wrong because the gear is not in place. He tried to pull the crank sensor out of the block and turn the gear with a screwdriver but he said it could have just siezed up.......
Without actually seeing the PID readings and DTCs (if any), it's pretty difficult to say what the problem might be. My guess as to why a crank sensor was installed would be if the SYNC reading failed to change from "no" to "yes" when the engine was cranked over, and/or engine cranking RPM was inconsistent. Typically, the servicing tech should be monitoring the following PIDs:

FICM_L: should read 11.0 to 12.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

FICM_M: should read 47.5 to 48.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

FICM_V: should read 11.0 to 12.0 volts at key-on/engine-off and remain steady while you crank the engine.

ICP V: should read 0.25 volts at key-on/engine-off and climb to minimum 0.8 volts while you crank the engine.

ICP: should read 0 psi at key-on/engine-off and climb to minimum 500 psi while you crank the engine over.

IPR Duty Cycle: should read 14.84% at key-on/engine-off and climb to around 50% as you crank the engine over.

FICM_SYNC: should read "NO" at key-on/engine-off and change to "YES" when you crank the engine over.

SYNC: should read "NO" at key-on/engine-off and change to "YES" when you crank the engine over.

V_PWR: should indicate around 12 volts at key-on/engine-off and drop to no lower than 9.5 volts while cranking the engine over.

RPM: should indicate around 175 to 200 as you crank the engine over. Any slower, and it's not cranking fast enough.

If any of the above PIDs are outside of what I've listed above the vehicle will not start. But based on the information you've provided and the way you're desribing it, I would be leaning more towards your engine harness that seems to be causing your issue. In the few years I've been wrenching on 6.0Ls, I have yet to replace a PCM. That's not to say it's not a possibility though. The crank sensor tone ring is NOT keyed to the crankshaft. It IS part of the crankshaft, meaning if the tone ring is an issue, the entire crankshaft would need to be replaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricemiester View Post
My question is has anyone ever heard of this? Or is this guy just guessing and running around in circles... Again the truck is an 05 model. Also speaking to the guy he used to work on transmissions he just moved to diesels recently. Has anyone ever heard of the gear on the crank or if anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I also read some other threads and there is no oil leak on the rear of the engine STC sensor i believe it is? So any suggestions guys thanks
By "oil leak", it's not an external oil leak that is being referred to regarding the STC fitting. Rather, it's an INTERNAL high pressure oil system leak that is being referred to (refer to ICP data above). If ICP fails to reach 500 psi, the FICM will NOT fire the injectors. Typically, on 2005 and up model years the STC fittings have been prone to blow out of the high pressure oil pump outlet, causing an internal high pressure oil system leak.
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2009, 01:20 PM
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M-Chan i just wanna say you are my hero... Your knowledge of these trucks overwhelms me. Thank you very much for listing all of these parameters which cause the truck to run. I was just on the scanner with it today and both the sync and ficmsync DO NOT go to yes so now what? Thank you very much for answering me!!!!!! I hope you have some insight on what it could be. But about the tone ring have you ever seen or heard of that happening? I'm just curious. And when i said get a load of this dealer crap i sincerely apologize to you cause you are the man!!!!! ALL HAIL M-CHAN!!!!
I'm looking forward to your response thanks!
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  #6  
Old 04-10-2009, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricemiester View Post
I was just on the scanner with it today and both the sync and ficmsync DO NOT go to yes so now what?
As I indicated in my previous post, if FICM SYNC and SYNC both fail to switch to yes, it would seem like you have an engine harness issue. Assuming the servicing tech verified both the cam and crank sensor circuits intact, and the resistances of both said sensors are within specs, that leaves either the PCM or the crank sensor tone ring. For what it's worth, a PCM can be "borrowed" from another vehicle for testing purposes to determine if the PCM is in fact faulty. I would assume if the servicing tech has another truck on the lot he can "borrow" from, he has already tried this. Is this truck a manual transmission or automatic? What is the mileage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricemiester View Post
Thank you very much for answering me!!!!!! I hope you have some insight on what it could be. But about the tone ring have you ever seen or heard of that happening? I'm just curious. And when i said get a load of this dealer crap i sincerely apologize to you cause you are the man!!!!! ALL HAIL M-CHAN!!!!
I'm looking forward to your response thanks!
Like I indicated in my previous post, I have READ about others having run into tone ring issues before, but I have never personally experienced it myself. For this reason, I wouldn't want to rule it out. For what it's worth, if the servicing dealer/tech has access to a borescope, he should easily be able to inspect the tone ring for damage by removing the crank sensor. The oil pan can also be dropped fairly easily to inspect the tone ring if needed. The bad news is if it IS the tone ring that is causing your issue, the entire crankshaft would need to be replaced, like I indicated in my previous post.
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  #7  
Old 04-10-2009, 09:09 AM
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The truck is an Automatic and I have another truck an 04 it has a automatic also can i switch them and itll work? The part numbers are different. The dealer said that they did try switching pcm's from another truck and it still didnt work so am i stuck with the tone ring? My scanner is saying that the cmp is faulting could that be the harness? Plus i also stated that the syncs were staying on no in crank mode. Now does the tone ring on the crank only read RPMs or does it have to do with the timing as well? I noticed on my scanner that the rpms would stay consistent around 125 to 135 but at times it will jump to 200 i guess that would mean my gear is spinning or is that normal? The truck has 110,000 miles on it so I'm not getting warrantee help. Thanks again for all your help
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricemiester View Post
The truck is an Automatic and I have another truck an 04 it has a automatic also can i switch them and itll work? The part numbers are different. The dealer said that they did try switching pcm's from another truck and it still didnt work so am i stuck with the tone ring? My scanner is saying that the cmp is faulting could that be the harness? Plus i also stated that the syncs were staying on no in crank mode. Now does the tone ring on the crank only read RPMs or does it have to do with the timing as well? I noticed on my scanner that the rpms would stay consistent around 125 to 135 but at times it will jump to 200 i guess that would mean my gear is spinning or is that normal? The truck has 110,000 miles on it so I'm not getting warrantee help. Thanks again for all your help
Your description of the way it behaves leads me to believe your engine harness needs to be replaced. The cam and crank sensor circuits from the PCM to the sensors are ground shielded, which means the circuits can't be overlayed or repaired. The good news is, the main engine harnesses for these trucks are actually quite cheap. I believe they are around $400. If you can PM me the VIN of your truck, I can find out the exact part number that applies to your vehicle. Before doing this though, I would verify the circuits to be faulty with an ohm check on both circuits through the PCM wiring. It MAY not indicate any faulty readings due to erratic RPM fluctuations like the way you describe though. It's unfortunate that your truck doesn't start, because I would also have suggested taking a pressure washer to the engine harness while the engine is running to see if it reacts. And yes, CMP/CKP faults ARE the direct cause of FICM SYNC and SYNC not changing to "yes" when you crank to engine over.
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  #9  
Old 04-10-2009, 04:23 PM
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Thanks a million my good man I'm gonna give the harness a shot come Monday. We'll see how it goes from there. Thanks again for all your help!!!!
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:12 AM
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Well M-Chan68 the harness unfortunatly didnt cure my problem. So i guess im stuck pulling the engine out.............................. I put a borescope in the hole of the crank trigger and i couldn't see any problems with the gear but it does wobble just a little bit. I guess something did happen to it so I'll pull it out next week.
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