Upgrade my 6.0 now or when it needs work? - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:23 AM
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Upgrade my 6.0 now or when it needs work?

Hello All. I recently bought aní05 E350 with the 6.0 (great shape, 78k miles), and admit-tingly didnít know what I was getting into. Iím an experienced weekend warrior mechanic (gas motors of all sorts), but I bought the Van and was naÔve/uninformed about the problematic 6.0 diesel. So now that I have it (and love it), and it runs great with 78k miles on it, I fear I may be sitting on a time bomb.

Should I:
1) install a Scan Gauge II to be aware of oil and coolant temp and when the delta starts to grow, then replace the oil cooler with either OEM or Bullet Proof (possibly in addition to the items in option 2 below)?

2) Or do I be proactive, attempt to avoid the inevitable, and replace Oil Cooler, Head gaskets, studs, EGR Cooler, STC fitting, IPR, Blue Spring Kit, EBPS, FICM in a pre-emptive strike?

All advice is welcome. Thanks, Gene
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:30 AM
DBM DBM is offline
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definitely put a monitor on it and see where you are. then you can form a plan based on urgent needs (if you have any). Some will say wait till work is needed, others will say if your in a position to do the work get it down now... it depends on you really... but having all the "bullet proofing" done will give you piece of mind
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:44 AM
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If it has been well maintained and you do not tune it you may never have issues.
They are good engines when maintained. I would absolutely get yourself a few things.

ScangaugeII
Coolant filter
Synthetic oil 5W/40 Motorcraft filters only.
Same with fuel filters.

Oil every 5K fuel filters every 10K
Fuel supplement is also wise.
Coolant changed every 2 years or 25K

See how it looks on the ScangaugeII oil temps are key;
ECT : 194*
EOT : 5-10* above ECT at 60-65 mph on level highway for extended periods, 20 miles or more. If you are within this range you have a healthy 6.0

There are some weak problematic things with the 6.0 but once they are addressed they are in it for the long haul. Here is the list:
STC fitting
Dummy plugs
Standpipes
Gold Coolant not maintained.
Weak alternator

Get the Scangauge on it and see how it does. If your oil temp is 15* or higher you will need to change the oil cooler before it creates another long list of problems.

In a nutshell the 6.0 health depends on a good oil cooler to flow enough coolant to properly cool the egr cooler so it does not overheat and burst then causing head gasket failure.
So: see how your oil cooler is doing.

I have 85,000 miles on my truck now and it is a great engine. I have had the STC and standpipes and dummy plugs updated so it's all up to me now. (Maintenance)
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:09 AM
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OK Guys, Thanks for the valuable advice.

On my '05 E350 with 6.0 and 78K miles, I installed a coolant filtration system & installed a Scan Gauge II. These are the initial readings:

-At idle, ECT = 184, EOT = 188, FICM = 47.5/48

-In stop and go traffic (zero to 60, 60 to zero, lot of lights), ECT = 189, EOT = 197, FICM = 48

-Highway driving, 2300 RPM sustatined, approx. 75 mph, ECT = 191, EOT climbed to 15 degree delta at 206 degrees, FICM = 48, then I slowed down to lower the ECT/EOT delta, and.....

-Highway driving, 2000 RPM sustained, approx. 62 mph, ECT = 190, EOT = 202, FICM = 48.

OK, I'm a diesel newbie but generally knowledgable, to my inexperienced eye, I'm thinking the Oil Cooler is ready for replacement, along with the EGR cooler. I have researched tell tale signs of needing head gaskets/head studs, and I don't see any indication I need them (yet). Since this is an Econoline, to install head studs, and then reinstall heads, it seems like the motor would have to come out, which I don't want to do unnecessarily.

I'm hoping you guys will agree the Oil Cooler, EGR cooler (and everything else that I can replace without pulling the motor for head studs) is the ticket. I'm looking forward to your advice. Thanks, Gene
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:04 PM
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You are taking these readings for longer than 20 minutes right?
You are right at the point of needing a oil cooler, yes. I would make sure coolant level is full and radiator is clean so you are getting a good measurement on temps. Blowing coolant out of the cap is the tell tell sign of head gasket failure along with white smoke out of pipe.
I would do a cooling system flush before doing the actual work and I would also recommend going with a ELC-1 coolant after you do the work.
I did a cooling system flush on my truck with liquid Cascade dishwasher soap and had great results. It cleaned the system without breaking everything loose and creating more problems.
Looks like you are on the right path with it. Once you get a new oil cooler and egr cooler you should be good to go.
Make sure you install a coolant filter on it. Very important with these engines as important as the oil filter if not more.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:05 AM
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mhatlan,
Yes, this was over a 45 minute drive to work yesterday morning. Interesting, on the drive home the motor ran noticeably hotter than earlier in the day. Outside temp the same, roads the same, traffic different,

-but the ECT was as high as 213, and EOT 218, sitting in traffic with occasional bursts to 20 mph.

-when I bought the van I replaced the coolant with the Gold from Ford since the parts and service guys at Ford highly recommended it. I likely overfilled it and there was coolant that blew out the cap, white residue, but that was a one time thing after slightly overfilling the coolant. I have not seen any coolant blow out or white residue since. I will pursue a more thorough head gasket evaluation per online videos from Bullet Proof etc. Tomorrow I will try to flush the coolant system as you recommend then replace the coolant with Rotella ELC and a new coolant filtration system.

-I have not seen any white smoke out of the exhaust pipe, so I'm not convinced I need head gaskets (wishful thinking?)

-Since this is a Van, I'd have to pull the motor to do the head studs, install the heads, and reinstall the motor, hopefully, so head gaskets quadruple the difficulty factor above simply Oil and EGR coolers.

mhatlan, can you please list the several steps involved in doing the coolant flush with dishwasher soap? Is it simply fill and drain, or fill let it sit and drain, or fill start the motor, for a few minutes and drain? HELP!

-I'm prepared to do the Oil/EGR coolers, but need to be 100% sure about the gaskets before I take out the motor (and my wife shoots me!).
Thanks to all
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ceesuns View Post

mhatlan, can you please list the several steps involved in doing the coolant flush with dishwasher soap? Is it simply fill and drain, or fill let it sit and drain, or fill start the motor, for a few minutes and drain? HELP!
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:10 AM
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First of all do you hear the fan staging up when the temp started to climb?
The temp climbing in stop and go traffic is more cooling system efficiency related to me. Make sure radiator fins are clean and that fan kicks in when you get above 200*.
A proper operating thermostat is key as well. 194* is the magic number and where you should see it at.
So if fan is not kicking in that would explain the higher temps at stop and go driving.
Over filling the coolant will cause it to blow out of cap. Keep coolant level at the lower mark and make SURE you have the upgraded cap on it. Black with orange writing , no white sticker cap they all fail.

As far as testing the head gaskets goes : get a 30psi gauge and cut in a tee at the small return line. Run it to the gauge and put a hose on long enough so you can see the gauge.
Get engine up to operating temps pressure should be 8-12 psi.
Do some full throttle inputs and observe the gauge. If the pressure spikes you have problems.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:34 AM
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Coolant flush;

Drain all coolant and block plugs and remove thermostat. Fill with water along with 2/3 -1 cup of liquid Cascade dishwasher soap. Drive for 20-30 minutes and then drain all points. Pull all hoses off of coolant tank and remove the heater hose at valve on passenger side along with upper hose and start pushing water through all the hoses that come to coolant tank. Then go the other way to flush everything both ways. I also took hose off of thermostat housing to flush block from there. Pull at least driver side block plug to get debris out of the block. Refill and go for another 20 minute drive and do it again flushing through hoses. I refilled with distilled water and let idle for 10-15 minutes and drained the third time then replaced thermostat with a new Motorcraft one and topped off with Catapillar EC-1 coolant. 3-1/2 gallons of it along with distilled water.
Also I great time for installing a coolant filter.

It worked well for me, my heater never got so hot and my delta is still 4 degrees 2 years later.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:01 AM
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Mhatlen,
Wow, thanks for the detailed replies, I'm learning a lot.

On my fan not engaging over 190 degrees: I drove to work today (5am no traffic, no problem EOT: 190, ECT: 199) and on the way home, 40 miles, 20 miles highway (COT: 190, EOT: 199), and 20 miles stop and go (EOT: 200, ECT:212). I'm pretty sure the fan was not kicking in. I stopped and looked, the fan was spinning like a clutched fan should (I suppose) but was not spinning really fast (the way I would expect for EOT at 200+). So, what should I replace? The clutch assembly I see online has an electrical harness & Plug, can I assume the clutch works alone, then when the motor sends a "Fan On" signal to the harness/clutch it engages more fully?

Advice needed on how to verify/test this condition, and what parts to replace is greatly appreciated.

Regarding testing for bad head gaskets, you mention to put a Tee in the small return line, on my E350 there are two equal size return lines from the degas, one to top of radiator, the other to elsewhere, I assume this "elsewhere" destined return line should get the Tee, yes?

One more question......if I got to the motor before the head gaskets went, and I do the Bullet Proof Oil & EGR cooler, and regular maintenance, should the head studs hold torque, or is there failure/replacement independent of the Oil Cooler>EGR Cooler Failure>Head Gasket Failure sequence?
gene
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