Diagnose hard miss- tech help - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 09-30-2013, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Diagnose hard miss- tech help

My last fix before shes up for sale..
Hard miss, no codes. Clears up on accelleration sometimes. Idles fine when cold but not when warm.
Hpo values are perfect. All results with AE:
Cmp ckp sync fluctuates between yes and no- no correlation with miss.
Injector buzz test showed no click for inj number 4 but i could hear a very faint sound like the solenoid is clicking but no movement from the spool valve?
KOER performance showed negative values for cylinders 5,6,8,1 with 6 being the lowest. Cylinders 7,2,3,4 gradually incresed values from low to high with cylinder 4 at the highest. Tried comanding injectors off one at a time but each one made no visible difference.
Any help would be appreciated. Loose, broken, dirty spool valve? Injector solenoid problem? Just want to get it so it runs right so I can sell the thing.
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post #2 of 36 Old 09-30-2013, 07:04 PM
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Check the connector to the injector itself. I had one pin that backed itself out of the harness side and randomly made contact when it wanted to. Terrible miss at low rpm under load.

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post #3 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 09:23 AM
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How are you FICM numbers? FICM Sync should not fluctuate.. Check your connections and wire conditions. I think the common chafe point for the cam sensor is right where it turns down the face of the engine with the EBP sensor

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post #4 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelaiman View Post
How are you FICM numbers? FICM Sync should not fluctuate.. Check your connections and wire conditions. I think the common chafe point for the cam sensor is right where it turns down the face of the engine with the EBP sensor
Ficm sync is good. Cmp ckp is what keeps bouncing around every 5-10 seconds. I have been monitoring ficm with my tuner ever since i got the tuner and it has never dropped below 47v tipically it is right at 48 or 47.5. Its been replaced before. Today when testing cold, injector buzz test did not click on injector 4 or 8 the first round, so i re-cycled the key and tested again, inj 8 has clicked ever since, inj 4 still nothing.

Removed driver side bank and 4,8 both had good resistance in the coils. I also lightly polished the spool valve. What concerns me is the amount of oil/ fuel in the cup. I thought it should be clean and free of any oil/ fuel- see pic. Most of them looked like this and some of them had what appears to be a combustion gas burn on the injector- see pic

Diagnose hard miss- tech help-imageuploadedbyautoguide1380654678.029135.jpg

Diagnose hard miss- tech help-imageuploadedbyautoguide1380654752.830888.jpg


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post #5 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Ficm sync is good. Cmp ckp is what keeps bouncing around every 5-10 seconds.
This reads like you have the start of a bad pick-up. However, to have both happen similarly lead me to think wiring harness or connections.

Quote:
when testing cold, injector buzz test did not click on injector 4 or 8 the first round
But #8 started on round 2. So, you either have stiction or wiring issues. The wiring in this case should throw a code for low circuit if that was the cause.

Quote:
What concerns me is the amount of oil/ fuel in the cup.
This will happen when you pull out injectors. Usually more is in the cups of the first pulled. Since you only pulled 2 out, this is where you would notice it.

Your injectors look like you have the start of some blow-by. Ensure it is not corrosion. When you install your injectors you must ensure you have no carbon in the cup, nor under the NEW copper seal and it is installed correct side up with the correct torque or you will see this happen. As well, you should also clear the cylinder. One problem that can happen is oil remains in the hold-down and prevents the bolt from getting to the correct depth at the correct torque. Even if you suck oil out the holes, you can still notice air or oil escaping while turning in the hold-down bolts.

Frank
2007 F-250 Lariat Crew. MBM 190/50s,
KC-68 Stage 3 Turbo,
DashBoss/F/P, and a few other goodies
Stiction Problems - Fix it yourself! - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/gen...ml#post4509754
Want to modify your injectors DIY - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0...ger-flows.html

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post #6 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
This reads like you have the start of a bad pick-up. However, to have both happen similarly lead me to think wiring harness or connections.



But #8 started on round 2. So, you either have stiction or wiring issues. The wiring in this case should throw a code for low circuit if that was the cause.



This will happen when you pull out injectors. Usually more is in the cups of the first pulled. Since you only pulled 2 out, this is where you would notice it.

Your injectors look like you have the start of some blow-by. Ensure it is not corrosion. When you install your injectors you must ensure you have no carbon in the cup, nor under the NEW copper seal and it is installed correct side up with the correct torque or you will see this happen. As well, you should also clear the cylinder. One problem that can happen is oil remains in the hold-down and prevents the bolt from getting to the correct depth at the correct torque. Even if you suck oil out the holes, you can still notice air or oil escaping while turning in the hold-down bolts.
Cmp sensor was replaced begining of this year. Ill check the resistance see if I have some chaffing going on.

I ended up pulling all 4 injectors on that bank, they all look the same- inj 4 looks like heat damage similar to when you heat up titanium and it gets that blueish color.
Even though the truck shakes like hell there was zero contribution codes. There was zero electrical circuit codes for injectors. The only codes I have- keyin ignition circuit, bus communication fault, fuel level sensor circuit low/high, and a prndl communication fault. These have been there for a while.

I will clean spool valves, replace orings/gaskets and see if that helps but I guess I still dont see how that would affect a warm miss.

To clear the cylinders... Remove glow plugs and ficm fuse and crank it for a second or two or do i need to manually spin the crankshaft?

Appreciate all your guys help


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EGR Delete, Oil Cooler upgrade
Blue Spring & Banjo Bolt Upgrade
AFE Stage II Intake, MBRP Straight 4" Turbo back
RBP 6" tip
SCT Custom Tuned
Autometer GS series
BFG A/T 285s
Recon Smoked Cab Lights
Recon Interior L.E.D.
Recon 3rd Brake L.E.D.
Custom Fiberglass Center Console
Two 10" Sundown Sa4's, Hifonics 1200 RMS mono
Optima Batteries
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post #7 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
To clear the cylinders... Remove glow plugs and ficm fuse and crank it for a second or two or do i need to manually spin the crankshaft?
No, not at all. Just use a suction device/tube that is small enough through where the nozzle would. You probably don't need to suck out the cylinder, but the same tool is used to clear out the hold-down.

Since you said you saw this on all the cylinders, this is telling me you did not use new copper seals, you installed them upside down, you over-torqued them, or under-torqued them. It is imperative you install them correctly.

Frank
2007 F-250 Lariat Crew. MBM 190/50s,
KC-68 Stage 3 Turbo,
DashBoss/F/P, and a few other goodies
Stiction Problems - Fix it yourself! - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/gen...ml#post4509754
Want to modify your injectors DIY - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0...ger-flows.html

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post #8 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Since I bought the truck 63k miles ago Ive never removed the injectors or even the oil rails... Ive used revx and t6 to fix my original miss and has been fine ever since. The injectors could be original for all I know.




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2003 Silver 6.0L PSD CC/SB FX4
EGR Delete, Oil Cooler upgrade
Blue Spring & Banjo Bolt Upgrade
AFE Stage II Intake, MBRP Straight 4" Turbo back
RBP 6" tip
SCT Custom Tuned
Autometer GS series
BFG A/T 285s
Recon Smoked Cab Lights
Recon Interior L.E.D.
Recon 3rd Brake L.E.D.
Custom Fiberglass Center Console
Two 10" Sundown Sa4's, Hifonics 1200 RMS mono
Optima Batteries
Meyers 7.5C Plow
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post #9 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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The correct way to install the washers is with the high side middle lip against the injector cup. Correct?

Cup
_--_
Inj

This will create a seal on the cup not the injector. Correct?


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2003 Silver 6.0L PSD CC/SB FX4
EGR Delete, Oil Cooler upgrade
Blue Spring & Banjo Bolt Upgrade
AFE Stage II Intake, MBRP Straight 4" Turbo back
RBP 6" tip
SCT Custom Tuned
Autometer GS series
BFG A/T 285s
Recon Smoked Cab Lights
Recon Interior L.E.D.
Recon 3rd Brake L.E.D.
Custom Fiberglass Center Console
Two 10" Sundown Sa4's, Hifonics 1200 RMS mono
Optima Batteries
Meyers 7.5C Plow
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post #10 of 36 Old 10-01-2013, 07:50 PM
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Yes, single hump to the cup.

Why you are seeing the start of blow-by is the unknown factor. Perhaps it has seen a bit too much heat and cylinder pressure? Let's see how it runs after you put it back together.

Frank
2007 F-250 Lariat Crew. MBM 190/50s,
KC-68 Stage 3 Turbo,
DashBoss/F/P, and a few other goodies
Stiction Problems - Fix it yourself! - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/gen...ml#post4509754
Want to modify your injectors DIY - http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0...ger-flows.html

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