2005 6.0 no start with no oil pressure on dash gauge - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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2005 6.0 no start with no oil pressure on dash gauge

This is my first post so pardon the duplicity. I've checked several threads and find similar but slightly different problems. I have a 2005 f350 dually with 6.0 and 96,700 on the odometer. The build date is 09-27-04 and sticker on pass valve cover says 2005. Truck shutoff while driving and will not start ( from all I've read not uncommon ). I'm the second owner and reviewed the oasis report the previous owner had done under warranty. Typical repairs including
FICM, ICP sensor, STC fitting upgrade, dummy plugs, egr and oil cooler. The part number for the STC was for the upgraded connector which screws in. This was done in August of 2010 so I believe the repair was done right.
I have followed a troubleshooting a no start condition found on one of these forums. Pulled codes with AE and found P2285, P2290, and P2291. Checked ICP pressure which showed between 11-14 psi. ICP voltage while cranking .26 volts. FICM showed 48 volts, IPR went between 14 - 84 %. Tried to start with ICP disconnected and would not start. ICP appears clean as well as the connector. Changed fuel filters. Found an aftermarket oil filter cap on truck and replaced that with oem along with new filter and oil. Still nothing. Removed oil filter and had engine cranked and oil flowed into the housing. The dash gauge for oil pressure never moves even after long cranking. I'm at wits end on this and that's not a far trip.
Can a hpo system leak prevent oil pressure on the low side? I found a thread somewhere that it is possible for a big leak to affect the low side and dash reading. Also read that one person had a relief valve go bad somewhere near the lpop. Trying to plan my next course of action. I'm sure many will recommend the ICP air connection and that will most likely be the next step. With the alleged updated STC fitting I'm confused where such a big leak would be. I also read that the hpop is more reliable on 05's and later. Leads me to believe a bad IPR valve. Hate to throw parts blindly. Can a dirty EGR valve cause a stall and no start? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 22 Old 07-03-2013, 06:11 PM
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No, a hpo leak should not affect the lpo. With oil flowing in the filter housing, that is adecent indication your lpop is working ok. I would investigate/remove the ipr and check the screen for tears/holes. All your codes are an indication of hpo leak or failed ipr.

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post #3 of 22 Old 07-03-2013, 08:19 PM
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ok so what your saying is when you have the oil cap off and someone cranks it the oil will fill the filter housing fast? if you hold down the plunger does it stay in the filter housing? is the black plunger in the bottom of the housing?


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post #4 of 22 Old 07-03-2013, 09:31 PM
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I would agree you have a HPO issue. The indication of oil entering the oil filter housing nearly rules out a low pressure issue. Sometimes the low pressure switch can take a long time to register pressure at cranking RPM. Your ICP shows a big leak. Whether it is the IPR or some other cause needs investigating as suggested. The problem with the IPR valve is it can fail and be unknown because the %age is a desired position, not the actual position. Your idea to pressure test the HPO system has merit, but checking the screen is fairly quick as well, unless you have to pull the turbo.

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post #5 of 22 Old 07-04-2013, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
I would agree you have a HPO issue. The indication of oil entering the oil filter housing nearly rules out a low pressure issue. Sometimes the low pressure switch can take a long time to register pressure at cranking RPM. Your ICP shows a big leak. Whether it is the IPR or some other cause needs investigating as suggested. The problem with the IPR valve is it can fail and be unknown because the %age is a desired position, not the actual position. Your idea to pressure test the HPO system has merit, but checking the screen is fairly quick as well, unless you have to pull the turbo.
Agreed but my concern is the oil drain back valve in the housing. I know that will not make it not start but it will cause a prolonged gauge activation. You need to check hpop system with air to determine coarse of action.


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post #6 of 22 Old 07-04-2013, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your replies. I charged the batteries and rechecked the dash pressure gauge during a long crank. The gauge is now registering pressure. I'm not sure if I did not crank long enough or if the non oem oil cap did not seat the filter covering the drain. I tested the oil pressure by removing the filter and cranking while holding down the drain valve and it filled quickly and held oil. Makes me think that the napa oil filter cap which was taller was holding the drain valve open and not filtering all the oil. Very concerned about that. I used that cap since I purchased vehicle Aug 2011 and have done 3 or 4 oil changes so far ( I don't put many miles on it ). I know that the oil pressure gauge on the dash did register oil pressure during this time.

It now appears that I have a plain old hpo system leak. I will get the IPR socket so that I can remove it without removing the turbo. Can the IPR cause no oil pressure in hpo system? Am I right in thinking that with the updated STC fitting there shouldn't be such a major oil leak in hpo system? Unless the pump is totally shot. I would think leaky o-rings would allow some pressure to build. Thanks again!
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post #7 of 22 Old 07-04-2013, 06:55 AM
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You are correct, with an aftermarket filter AND cap or mismatched filter and cap it may not have been filtering all the oil. Yes, if the ipr has trash in it, it will stick open and essentially cause an "oil leak" in the hpo system. Your stc fitting should be ok, bad orings in the dummy plugs or standpipes can cause a big enough leak to prevent enough pressure buildup. There is a hpop air test you can do to verify if the hpop is ok, look it up in the stickies.

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post #8 of 22 Old 07-04-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofcstork View Post
Thank you all for your replies. I charged the batteries and rechecked the dash pressure gauge during a long crank. The gauge is now registering pressure. I'm not sure if I did not crank long enough or if the non oem oil cap did not seat the filter covering the drain. I tested the oil pressure by removing the filter and cranking while holding down the drain valve and it filled quickly and held oil. Makes me think that the napa oil filter cap which was taller was holding the drain valve open and not filtering all the oil. Very concerned about that. I used that cap since I purchased vehicle Aug 2011 and have done 3 or 4 oil changes so far ( I don't put many miles on it ). I know that the oil pressure gauge on the dash did register oil pressure during this time.

It now appears that I have a plain old hpo system leak. I will get the IPR socket so that I can remove it without removing the turbo. Can the IPR cause no oil pressure in hpo system? Am I right in thinking that with the updated STC fitting there shouldn't be such a major oil leak in hpo system? Unless the pump is totally shot. I would think leaky o-rings would allow some pressure to build. Thanks again!
You sir are doing a great job and with more diagnosis will fix this issue so please do not stop. Do you have anything that you can command ipr valve?


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post #9 of 22 Old 07-04-2013, 07:52 AM
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Another big forehead oil cap! It is too bad they aren't forced to paint them pink or some other colour so you know it isn't OEM.

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post #10 of 22 Old 07-05-2013, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks you guys. I just purchased AE to diagnose this repair, been wanting it for awhile but didnt have a reason. I'm not the greatest shade tree and this will be the first time I've wrenched on this truck, aside from some questionable maintenance (wrong oil filter cap ). I was wondering as you're asking jugernaut, since the IPR is a valve can I command it closed. I'm reading that it appears to fail open. If you know how to do this I'd appreciate it.

As for the oil filters, the previous owner had a box of oil & fuel filters from racor. After comparing it to the motorcraft I just purchased it appears to be the same. Also read that racor makes filters for Ford so I believe they are still good. The issue was the cap. When I removed it for the lpo test I saw the fine print with NAPA and do not reuse ( I agree paint them pink ). Thank you all for your responses.

Also one last thought. As I mentioned before, other than an STC or open IPR wouldn't leaky o-rings allow for some oil pressure build up. It appears all I'm getting is atmospheric pressure. Thanks
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