Another Bucking/Surging problem - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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  #1  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:45 AM
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Another Bucking/Surging problem

So, it seems every time I haul calves to market my truck acts up. Then again that is when I use it the most. Last two times hauling a cattle trailer full of calves the truck wants to surge like it was running on 7 and then the 8th cylinder kicks in. Sometimes it just bounces around up and down a couple hundred rpm. I see the ICP fluctuate but I would think that normal since the rpms are changing. Twice now it bucked so bad it felt like I hit a wall and it took right back off. Three times after pulling for a while and having to stop at a light or stop sign it just shut off. Started right back up though. About 3-4 months ago it bucked badly and threw a P2285 (ICP). It never threw that code again since. I have reloaded the tune (Towing tune), cleaned the EGR, and did the blue spring mod. I have a new ICP sensor but have hesitated doing that since mine is an 04 with a late 03 motor and the ICP is in the back. ICP pressure seems to run around 1500 at 60-65 and 1800-2000 at 70-75.

Other things I have noticed. FCIM voltage usually around 48.5. I did see it drop to 47 a couple times but not during the spaz attacks that I noticed.

70,000 on the truck as it is mostly used to pull a cattle trailer. Lately is seems to idle more rough when first started than it used to. Since months ago when it threw the ICP code is has not thrown another code.

I guess change the ICP since I have it. Any other suggestions? Thanks
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:09 AM
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I guess everyone is on vacation.

Ok, didn't get to work on it till Sunday and only had half a day at that. Decided on doing it from the top since I got under it with a flash light and could not find the sensor. Took the degas bottle off, air cleaner, FICM, and the back two plugs on the injectors so I could move the harness. I found a YouTube video on removing the FICM connectors. That was a BIG help. So, now I can just look back in the hole and see the ICP? Nope, I searched and searched. Stuck my hand back there as far as possible, got under it again, got back on top no luck. I thought maybe since mine is an 04 maybe just maybe it was in the passengers valve cover after all. I looked again (I had done this a couple months ago too). Nope, no ICP in the valve cover. Wasted what must have been an hour and finally pulled the insulation back on the wiring harness running behind the engine and there it was all covered up. Managed to get my hand in there and unplug the connector on the ICP sensor. I thought I had everything I needed but I could not get my stuff in there to get the old sensor out. I needed a cut down socket and a swivel joint. Could not find my swivel joint and only had a 1/2 drive deep socket. I was running out of time as I had something already planned for Sunday afternoon so I decided to just wait and pick up a socket and another 3/8 drive swivel joint today. The GF has really small hands and long arms. I am hoping once I get the sensor out she will be able to reach in and screw the new one in for me.

Now, I did look at the connector and it does have oil in it. I am calling the dealer today to see if he happens to have a pigtail in stock and I will change that also.

I think if I had the right tools I could have done the whole thing in about 3 hours.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:06 AM
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More than likely as stated in your first post it remains an ICP problem. I don't think anyone jumped in since you indicated you were going to change out the ICP. With the code, and now the oil on the plug, successful repair is near. I don't own an 03, but I know there is no room to work at the back. If it gets to be too much of a PITA, give in early and pull the turbo. After 9 years it probably needs some TLC as well.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:55 PM
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Ok, it took about 60 seconds and no scraped up arms for the GF to plug the connector on the ICP sensor. Got it all back together and it would just spin and not run. Spun fast though.

Let the starter cool and tried it again and it fired right up. Let it run to warm up maybe 10 minutes. Shut it off and tried to restart and it just spun. Noticed the IPC registered ~4000 on the scan gauge. I let it sit and saw the ICP go to 0. I tired again and it fired right up. Tried this several times and will not start till I wait for the ICP to show 0 on the scan gauge. It starts when at 0. At idle the ICP is showing a constant 875. Not sure what is causing it to go to around 4000 when I turn the key off. Wait till it shows 0 and it starts right up.

Any suggestions are very welcome.
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:57 PM
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What is interesting is the ICP would never read 4000 with just the starter cranking it. Of course, with it reading 4000, the IPR would open and effectively the real ICP would be too low for a start.

It is beginning to sound like a shorting wire to Vref and signal; but if you have oil in the plug, it will play havok with your voltage readings, but not usually full voltage. Even if you unplugged the ICP, the stray voltage would continue to screw up the PCM. This may not be easy to track down due to wire location.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
What is interesting is the ICP would never read 4000 with just the starter cranking it. Of course, with it reading 4000, the IPR would open and effectively the real ICP would be too low for a start.

It is beginning to sound like a shorting wire to Vref and signal; but if you have oil in the plug, it will play havok with your voltage readings, but not usually full voltage. Even if you unplugged the ICP, the stray voltage would continue to screw up the PCM. This may not be easy to track down due to wire location.
Yeah, when turn the key off at idle (875) on the ICP and then turn it back on it goes to 4000 (ICP). I just watch the scan gauge till it drops to zero and it starts right up. Takes maybe 10 seconds or so. Guess I will have to do some research and see what normal readings should be.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:59 AM
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All of the factory references are voltage PSI, but if you use psi here are some values.

ICP
engine off = 0 psi (variation up to 150 psi)
IPR defaults to 14% with no CKP (ICP 300 psi)
crank = up to 1700 psi, typically starts before that. Very long crank pressure could be over 2000 psi. Minimum .8v or 500 psi.
idle = 650-800 psi (IPR 30% max)
65 mph = ICP about 1000 psi
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoicebergs View Post
All of the factory references are voltage PSI, but if you use psi here are some values.

ICP
engine off = 0 psi (variation up to 150 psi)
IPR defaults to 14% with no CKP (ICP 300 psi)
crank = up to 1700 psi, typically starts before that. Very long crank pressure could be over 2000 psi. Minimum .8v or 500 psi.
idle = 650-800 psi (IPR 30% max)
65 mph = ICP about 1000 psi
I think I need to monitor ICPV instead of ICP to get voltage readings correct?
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:47 AM
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Ok, I finally had a chance to program in the ICV into my scan gauge. I am seeing 4.48 volts as soon as I turn the key on. The scan gauge doc says it should only be .2 volts with the key on. Does this help at all? I did get a pig tail but not sure how long it will be before I am well enough to crawl back up in there to change it.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Ok, I finally had a chance to program in the ICV into my scan gauge. I am seeing 4.48 volts as soon as I turn the key on. The scan gauge doc says it should only be .2 volts with the key on.
As I said previously, this is more than likely the root of your problem. You need to pull out your electrical tester and find out where the short is. The 5v Vref is making a direct path to the sense wire. It is either doing this in the sensor, the plug, or wire bundle somewhere between the ICP and the PCM. More than likely, all of this it is near or at the ICP.
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