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Old 03-19-2013, 07:35 PM
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Low oil pressure help.

So I was accelerating over a highway overpass and noticed my 2004 F250 6.0 stumble a bit. I recovered when I let off and I didn't think too much about it. I stopped for an errand a mile or two down the road and when I went to start it to leave, I had to crank it a bit to get it started.

I'm using Torque to monitor the vitals and everything looked OK so I headed home. At the stoplight, I noticed that the "Check gauge" light was lit and the oil pressure idiot needle was resting on the lower stop peg. It picked right up when I touched the gas, so I took it easy heading home.

I asked my favorite mechanic, Mr. GoogleWrench, and found a few different issues to check for so I picked the easiest to shotgun, the switch. Got that replaced today and cranked it to see if there was a change. It didn't start with the normal amount of cranking, and I didn't see the idiot needle move so I tried again and watched the HPOP reading from Torque. It started around 5 psi and climbed as I cranked. It slowly climbed to begine with but then jumped through the 50-500 range when it started up and idled. I drove around the block a few times and found that any RPM over 700 (it normally idles at 650) gives a good oil pressure idiot needle reading. The HPOP/ICP is around 550 at idle and when I ran it up for testing, all seemed fine if I could keep the ICP under about the 3000. Over 3000, it would bog down and the ICP would fall like a lawn dart. I recognized the bogging from the day before so the switch replacement didn't change anything. If I let off the gas, it would recover almost instantly and all was well until idle where the idiot needle would drop to 0 again.

This truck is a new to me truck with 90k on the odometer. Previous owner was a road construction company and according to the OASIS report, it must have idled a lot in it's life as they went less then a year between EGR valve replacements. I've had it for 3 weeks and it this is the first time the needle has fallen over and played dead. All I've done is clean the EGR valve and give it an oil change with Ford filters and Rotella T6 oil. And spritz the old oil over the top of the engine when I neglected to tighten the hold down bracket for the turbo oil supply line.

I found a list of causes for the low oil pressure and was wondering how to test each one.

Quote:
Typical causes of low(er) base oil pressure indication:
1. Bad LPOP
2. Leaking pressure regulator on LPOP discharge (recirculates too much oil)
3. The HPOP check valve ball mentioned earlier
4. Bad oil pressure sensor
5. Open oil filter base drain valve - usually related to aftermarket filters as mentined earlier.
It would seem not to be #4 since I replaced the switch already and it's had no effect and #3 is a rather involved check and repair process. Is there a test/quick fix for the other items?

It's too new to me to tell for sure, but it seems that possibly there is an unhappy squeaking noise at the front of the engine. I've heard what kind of sounds like a bad pulley once or twice but never really narrowed down what was causing that prior to the oil pressure issue. Could that be the LPOP trying to free itself from the confines of it's housing or just my hyperactive imagination running wild?
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:06 PM
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What is the IPR running at ??
14 KOEO
21 at idle: these are what a healthy hpo system will show

anything at 30 or above at idle is a hpo oil leak for sure.
Take these measurements at 194*

It's possible you have a IPR problem. it can be dumping your oil and lpop may not be keeping up with it.
Anyway take a look at the IPR that is what will tell you what's going on.
Obviously the higher the % the more it's closing in a attempt to gain pressure for system, so if the % is high you will most likely have a leak somewhere.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:14 AM
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Re: Low oil pressure help.

By HPO leak, you mean the stupid little BB (SLBB) has gone missing? Or that there is another internal leak somewhere?
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhatlen View Post
What is the IPR running at ??
14 KOEO
21 at idle: these are what a healthy hpo system will show

anything at 30 or above at idle is a hpo oil leak for sure.
Take these measurements at 194*

It's possible you have a IPR problem. it can be dumping your oil and lpop may not be keeping up with it.
Anyway take a look at the IPR that is what will tell you what's going on.
Obviously the higher the % the more it's closing in a attempt to gain pressure for system, so if the % is high you will most likely have a leak somewhere.
Is KOEO Key On, Engine Off? That was indeed 14% for the IPR. At idle, it was at 23.4%, but my coolant only goes up to 175 or so. I guess I need to take a look at the thermostat.

Is there an IPR value to look for if I'm driving around as opposed to just idling?
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:39 PM
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Those are both normal readings I can take a look at the 2500 rpm % for the IPR and see what that should be. As far as normal IPR as driving I have never seen any info on that but the #s you posted are good. I will pull up the higher rpm spec to rule that out for sure.
I am guessing the truck is running fine at that time you took #s ?
Crankcase is full of oil right ? Is the low oil pressure light still coming on because that is only a 7 psi switch and is almost a worthless feature the way it is set up.
It doesn't look like you have a hpo leak because your idle would be higher for sure.

How about the oil filter: is it a oem one Motorcraft with the oem cap. There are aftermarket filters out there that are too short and the filter does not completely close the poppet drain in the oil filter housing. If you do have a aftermarket oil filter I would no doubt look there first and replace it with the oem.
Take a look at it.................

Last edited by mhatlen; 03-20-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:50 PM
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Thanks for looking up the off idle IPR %. It does seem to be fine other then the idiot needle and a loss of power over 2500-3000 IPC. I've not kept in the gas to see what happens but it seems to want to quit if you push too hard. If you let off the gas when it loses power, it recovers right away.

I am using a Motorcraft filter with the OEM cap. At least I'm pretty sure it's the OEM cap. The new filter snapped right on and I seem to recall it had a Ford part number. I also thought it looked quite like the frame mounted fuel filter cap but I haven't checked the part numbers.

Could someone have replaced the oil filter cap with a spare fuel filter cap?
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WadeMoeller View Post
Thanks for looking up the off idle IPR %. It does seem to be fine other then the idiot needle and a loss of power over 2500-3000 IPC. I've not kept in the gas to see what happens but it seems to want to quit if you push too hard. If you let off the gas when it loses power, it recovers right away.

I am using a Motorcraft filter with the OEM cap. At least I'm pretty sure it's the OEM cap. The new filter snapped right on and I seem to recall it had a Ford part number. I also thought it looked quite like the frame mounted fuel filter cap but I haven't checked the part numbers.

Could someone have replaced the oil filter cap with a spare fuel filter cap?
No but people have used aftermarket caps with motorcraft filters and problems arise in many places, injectors,IPR,s, hpo issues ect.
If it popped in nicely odds are it's oem, should be short and have some fomoco # on it.

It's possible that you do have a lpop problem, not unheard of has the truck had any problems ? A mechanical gauge on the lpop will answer that question.

My trucks IPR @ 1500 rpm is 28% IPR and at 2500 rpm is 36%IPR and being my engine has only 28,000 miles on it I would say that is where it should be.

Last edited by mhatlen; 03-20-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:41 PM
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Checked the oil filter cap and did the "Does it fill up the oil filter reservoir test."

I didn't see the FoMoCo part number or any brand name at all. Guess I need to replace that one, or at least look at the part at the local Ford dealership.

There was some oil being sent up when it was cranked. My friend didn't crank it for more then a second or two but it put about half an inch in the bottom. I was half expecting a geyser, how fast should it fill up the reservoir?
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:46 AM
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Well poop. It was probably an OEM filter cap anyway. The new one, purchased at the local Ford dealership and in a Motorcraft plastic bag, was very similar to the old cap. The biggest difference were strakes internally that look to be there to center the filter and on the outside, the new cap didn't have the traditional oil filter flutes like see on spin-on filters.

I also pulled the oil relief valve and it came out fine and looked fine.

Still have no indicated pressure at idle and if I put my foot in it, the truck loses power by 3000 ICP. My IPR matches your's at 1500 RPM, but runs higher at 2500 RPM, 45%.

So it looks like either I've lost my SLBB or the LPOP is failing, right?
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:11 AM
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I would have to guess your right, what style hpop do you have ? swash plate or piston?

The fact that it is running and up to 3000 ICP I would think the lpop is supplying oil but it's blowing out somewhere maybe out of the ball bearing in the hpop.
A pressure gauge at the lpop would at least tell you what you have there and I have seen posts where the ball can blow out on the early hpop,s and out goes the oil.\

Someone with more knowledge will hopefully chime in on exactly where to go from here.
Strange how it runs as well as it does at lower speeds and then falls on it's face.
There is a cut off date on the engine when it goes to the 4 piston hpop June 29 2004 IIRC for the F-series.
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