I think it's finally happening (HG?) - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:45 AM
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I think it's finally happening (HG?)

Well my truck has been drinking quite a bit of coolant lately, I cannot see any visible leaks with the exception of it blowing out of the de-gas bottle. And it's not burning any coolant through the exhaust, at least noticeably.
Is it the gaskets finally going?
Or the EGR cooler plugged up?
Or both? And how long do I have? I was hoping to make it to spring so I could ride my Busa to work, but I don't think I'm going to make it.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:51 PM
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The EGR cooler does not get plugged up, it ruptures letting coolant into the intake and into the cylinders. The oil cooler gets plugged and causes the EGR to rupture. You need to get a Edge Insight or a Scangauge 2 and look at your EOT & ECT temps that will let you know if you have a plugged oil cooler. Park you truck nose down on a hill and pull the EGR valve come back in the morning and see if there is any waster in the intake. Also when you pull it out look in there and see if it looks wet. If it is wet or has water in it then you have a ruptured EGR cooler. You have 2 options to tell about the HG either go to the parts store and get a 3/8" Tee, some 3/8" hose, hose clamps, and a 20 - 30 PSI gauge or get Blockcheck. If you get the gauge hook it up to one of the small lines going to the degas bottle and run it in the cab. Get on the road and get the skinny pedal down close to the floor, if the PSI spikes real quickly to 16-17 PSI then welcome to the HG/Studded club. If so make sure you use STOCK FORD HG's. Here is the link to buy Blokcheck. Good Luck.
Block Tester Combustion Leak Test for Blown Head Gasket by Test Tools inc.

Also when you replace/delete the EGR cooler either replace the stock oil cooler or get the BPD oil cooler, as the oil cooler is the root of the problem. If you go back stock make sure you flush BEFORE you get it replaced. And get some CAT EC-1 ELC coolant and a coolant filter.

Last edited by thomaslord84; 12-28-2011 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Forgot to put last part.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:06 PM
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Thank's very much for the helpful info. I am going to do the 3/8" hose deal tomorrow if I get a chance at work.
I will also try getting after the EGR cooler if the weather is decent and I can move cars around and pull my truck in the shop.

Is there anything else I should put on my parts list.
OEM Head gaskets
ARP Studs
EGR delete
OEM oil cooler
ELC Coolant
???
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:28 PM
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I would get the black onyx Head gaskets. They are far superior to the stock ones when installed correctly.

You can look on here all day and find people bashing these gaskets saying they fail on them etc and this is usually the result of improper installation.

When you get your studs done, be sure to get your heads tested by a reputable machine shop. If your heads are fine or fixed and the area the gaskets touch is clean, with a proper install you shouldn't have any problems with the black onyx gaskets.

Also as stated make sure to replace your oil cooler. To many people fork over thousands to get their trucks "bulletproofed" and have the same trouble a few thousand miles later. If you do everything at once and do it right your truck will get you anywhere you need to go for thousands of miles to come.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:29 PM
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While your in your motor you could put in the 6.4 banjo bolts, new updated turbo line, and a new fuel spring. These are mainly for piece of mind, but your truck will thank you!
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Stroker View Post
I would get the black onyx Head gaskets. They are far superior to the stock ones when installed correctly.

You can look on here all day and find people bashing these gaskets saying they fail on them etc and this is usually the result of improper installation.

When you get your studs done, be sure to get your heads tested by a reputable machine shop. If your heads are fine or fixed and the area the gaskets touch is clean, with a proper install you shouldn't have any problems with the black onyx gaskets.

Also as stated make sure to replace your oil cooler. To many people fork over thousands to get their trucks "bulletproofed" and have the same trouble a few thousand miles later. If you do everything at once and do it right your truck will get you anywhere you need to go for thousands of miles to come.
I agree with you here about the head gaskets. The key is preparation of the head, and the block surfaces to insure you get a good seal when all set and done.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:11 AM
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I would also recommend a new ICP & harness, they are a PITA to do with everything together, and a new IPR, also a PITA withe everything together.

The type of HG's are your choice but you can find tons of threads on Black Onyx HG's failing with studs. The preparation of the surfaces may be to blame. How do you know that the shop that you are getting to do it will get the surfaces perfect enough to hold them? Are you willing take the chance of them not getting it perfect enough and be right back in the same place in a few thousand miles? Having to spend ANOTHER $4k on it?
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:32 AM
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Well luckily I work at a machine shop. So if I don't deck the heads right it's my own damn fault.
And what is the ICP & Harness and IPR?
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:49 AM
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ICP = Injection Control Pressure sensor. It is known to leak trough the sensor itself and into the wires going to it. It causes the sensor to read funny when this happens. The sensor lets the PCM know exactly how much HPOP PSI there is which controls your injectors. In extreme cases I have read that the oil has crept up the wires all the way to the PCM and fried it too.

IPR = Injection PSI Regulator. It is a valve that opens and closes to govern the HPOP PSI that controls your injectors. The PCM controls this. The screen filter in the end of it has been known to tear/fail and cause problems with low HPOP PSI. You have to have about 500 PSI of HPOP PSI for the PCM to even try to tell the FICM to fire the injectors. When you take the IPR out look at the screen in the end of it. If you see and shiny stuff in it then you are getting ready to replace the HPOP itself.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:09 AM
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A lot of guys on here have had to do the HG job over again after using non-oem gaskets. Your call, but I would advise sticking with the OEM gaskets and going with ARP studs. OF course this is also a good time for Stand pipes , dummy plugs and an updated STC fitting. In any case make sure you clean your turbo when you have it out. All that water is going to cause a problem for you later on. I would check your temp delta and make sure it's not time for am EGR cooler and oil cooler combo before you dive into the HG's It takes 5 min to pull the EGR valve and look down the hole to see if the EGR cooler is blownout. IN any case it sounds like it's time for a cooling system flush with restore before the work starts. GOOD LUCK


Q: Engine puking coolant from de-gass tank


A: Head gaskets are bad or EGR cooler and oil cooler have failed. There is a slim chance the de-gas tank cap is bad.


Q: Wrench light when towing and engine looses power

A: Some newer PCM flashes monitor EOT vs ECT delta and when it exceeds 15 deg the truck will go into limp mode. Your oil cooler is obstructed and needs to be replaced. This is a good time to do a cooling system flush and an EGR delete. This can also be caused by a t-stat that is stuck open and not allowing the coolant to warm up.


Q: Do I have a blown EGR cooler?

A: Remove the EGR valve and look down the hole, some times the truck will have to be parked nose down over night. If you see any wetness, wet gooey soot, or it looks steam cleaned, your EGR cooler is bad. This is a good time to do a delete if you can, if you can't I would recommend a new cooler from bullet proof diesel.


Q: Do I have a blown head gasket?

A: Generally if there is a slow gradual pressure increases in the cooling system over 16 PSI then this points to an EGR cooler / oil cooler failure. If the pressure in the cooling system tries to head to and exceed 20psi pretty fast in a cool motor then this points to a head gasket failure. Put a Tee in one of the rubber lines going to the de-gas tank and attach the line for your gauge to that. Or buy new hose and make a test rig to use for now and then loan to all your buds later on. This is as simple as a 3/8 hose barb Tee,5 clamps, 30 PSI gauge and some 3/8 air line. Cut 2 short stubs out of the air line to span the gap between the manifold and the de-gas tank. Next since you saved the end of the air line that has a 1/4 FNPT fitting crimped to it, the free end goes to the tee and your gauge attaches to the factory crimped on FNPT fitting. You will use a gauge with a 30 full scale reading. The cap on the De-gas tank is a 16 lb relief, this is why 16 psi is the magic number. The pressure you reach is not as important as the rate of climb. The reason for the slow increase in pressure for the EGR cooler/ oil cooler failure is as follows. The oil cooler plugs up and starves the EGR cooler for coolant thus turning it into a superheated steam generator. This point source of heat and excess pressure will lead to the EGR cooler failure. In this condition some have reported the melting nipple on the de-gas tank the attaches to a rubber hose that vents steam from the EGR cooler.

The rapid rise in pressure associated with a head gasket failure is caused by combustion gasses entering the cooling system and raising the cooling system pressure until the vent on the de-gas tank cap opens and the puking starts. I think NAPA has a test strip you can use to detect combustion gasses in the coolant.

OK so with a quick check of a saturated steam chart this is what we know.

15.3 PSIg steam equals 250 degF

20 PSIg steam equals 259 degF

What this mean is that if you take a cold truck out and run the heck out of it and it builds pressure to 20PSI or more and the coolant isn’t 260 deg then it’s a safe bet that combustion gasses are entering the cooling system because you have a bad head gasket.

Water boils at 212 deg at zero PSIg. In a closed system there is a very predictable relationship between steam pressure and steam temperature. This is why cooling systems are pressurised. This way you can have 248 deg coolant that is at about 15 PSIa and you make no steam because the coolant isn’t it’s boiling temp for that pressure, it is however saturated. Now at addition of ethylene glycol raised the boiling point too but for what we are taking about we can use a table for water-based steam. If the system doesn’t get hot enough to the point it should make steam and its building pressure you know that pressure is from a different source like combustion gasses entering the cooling system. From ---- wait for it ------ BAD HEAD GASKETS.






Q: What is the delta between EOT and ECT?

A: Delta refers to the difference between the oil and coolant temperatures. This delta should not exceed 15 deg F , if it does once the truck it up to operating temperature going straight down the highway your oil cooler is plugged up.

Q: Engine slowly loosing coolant

A: Leaking EGR cooler , Bad head gasket, puking coolant, leaking freeze plugs, Leaking radiator or water pump, hose between egrcooler and oil cooler leaking


Q: The nipple melted off of my de-gass tank.

A: Your oil cooler is plugged up and starving the EGR cooler for coolant turning it into a steam generator. The superheated steam is going to the De-gass tank via the hose from the manifold that runs to the nipple that just melted off. You need a coolant flush, new oil cooler and an EGR delete.


Q: What’s the white crusty stuff around my coolant tank / de-gas bottle

A: Your engine is suffering from a condition called coolant puking. Two scenarios cause this.

#1 Your oil cooler is plugged up and starving the EGR cooler for coolant turning it into a steam generator this flash boiled coolant is entering the de-gas bottle from the rubber hose that leads from the manifold and puking out as it over pressurized the de-gas bottle.

#2 You have a blown head gasket. Combustion gasses are entering the cooling system and over pressurizing it causing puking out the de-gas bottle cap which should vent at about 16 psi.



Last edited by HAM_RADIO_MAN; 12-29-2011 at 11:13 AM.
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