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Old 06-17-2011, 03:01 PM
TMR TMR is offline
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did they do me wrong?

Hello, I'm new to the Forum and thank you in advance for any advice. I have a 2007 F250. 120k miles. I've only had it six or seven months but it's been well taken care of.
Recently I had a hard start issue, no warning, just got in to go and it wouldnt. Took it to a friend's shop (not diesel people) he did check for any codes and there were none. He changed the oil as he said they were really sensitive to oil quality. Charged me $200.00 clams and sent me on my way. It did start better and seemed ok. Then one day (about a week later) the truck didnt want to start again and after finally starting I commenced to drive home. As I neared my home I noticed white smoke when I decelerated I was almost home so I continued, all gauges read normal at the time. As I turned the corner on my block, the low coolant message came up and I pulled in front of my house.
Ok, sorry, I'll try to cut to the chase now. I had it towed to a diesle specialty shop who came recommended by two different friends. They took a couple days and then called to tell me that all everything looked fine but the EGR cooler and oil cooler were both in need of replacement. They tell me it'll be $2500.00 and a couple days to fix. It's my only vehicle and I use it for work every day so I told them to get it done.
A few days later, I call them and they tell me its all finished but the tech is out test driving it as we speak to make sure its ready. Then, after I call again, they tell me it now has a knock in the engine. The Tech tells me that sometimes its normal for a chunk of crystalized carbon to get in the valve and they need a little time to check it out. After a couple more days, the owner gets on and says they still dont know whats wrong but he is going to have a listen to it himself to determine what the problem is. another day or so, I have to call again and he tells me that the problem is in the head and They's like me to authorize another $2500 to take the heads off and see exactly what the problem is. He say most likely its a valve seat come loose and if thats the case, its another $175.00 to have that fixed.
This is where I start to raise an eyebrow. After contemplating the situation, I decide to have them button it up and have the dealership come get it (on a flatbed) to get a thrid party diagnosis. The shop that did the repair told me the engine was fine before they started, fine when they finished. Wasnt knocking till they got back from a check ride.
The dealer comes and gets it, calls me the next day and tells me the problem is not in the head but in the block and they think it's a bent cconnecting rod and that the engine has been hydrolocked. I almost blew coffee out my nose when I heard the news!
So, after all that, here is my question.... If a truck comes in to your shop and the customer tells you there has been white smoke, That typically means water in the system right? If thats the case, is there a procedure (after you determine the EGR cooler and oil cooler have failed) that you ensure the cylinders havent filled with coolant? The shop that fixed it (or broke it) says there is no way to know if the block filled with coolant or not. So, they asked me to pay $2500. to replace failed parts but they didnt ever say that once they did that, there was a chance they could ruin the block by starting it afterwards. Shouldnt there be a procedure for this?
I feel like they didnt do it right and damaged my engine and now, theyre backpedaling to try to place the blame on me. It had no knock when it left my house, they told me they checked it all out and the engine looked fine. They charged me to fix it, told me it was done then came back and said it had a knock and there was no telling when it got damaged.
My feeling is that they either damaged me engine through negligence or grossly misdiagnosed the problem. If they had told me that the EGR and oil cooler were bad and they would be $2500 to fix BUT, the engine might be shelled as well, I wouldnt have authorized the first repair untill I knew all the details.
Am I looking at this the right way? I dont have 12k to buy a new engine that someone else screwed up. In fact, I dont have 12k to replace an engine that I screwed up either.
What do you all think?
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Old 06-17-2011, 03:30 PM
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Hey man... First, I'm NOT A MECHANIC but I do a lot of reading and seeing as how as no one has chimed in yet, I'll say that most of the people who have the 'all of the sudden no start' issues have a FICM (Fuel Injector Control Module) issue. Do some research to see if there are any other indicators. The best way to determine this is to purchase an engine monitoring system. The cheapest out there is the Scangauge II and one of the paramters you can establish with it is to monitor your FICM voltage. A bad FICM will NOT throw a CEL (Check Engine Light) so if they says there's no codes, that's why.

Below is a link to some recent discussion of the Scangauge II. Probably the best $125-$170 you will spend on your truck. Also, if you try soing some searching on here, use the search box in the upper left hand corner of the screen... the one that says 'google search' as it works much better than the web site's search engine.

Scan Gauge II ?

This is a high powered website created just for Ford Diesel and Powerstroke enthusiasts. Older Ford 6.9L and 7.3L International or IDI owners are also welcome - Search Results for bad FICM
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:18 PM
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Man, that some big-time-bummer luck.

I doubt the rod is bent, and I agree with the above that the FICM would be a good place to start... I believe Auto Enginuity scans the FICM voltage as well, and its a full diagnostic tool w/ tests that would definately come in handy in the future, IMHO.

Good luck, and
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:00 PM
TMR TMR is offline
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FICM

I failed to mention that before I had the white smoke, I did do some reading on this forum and read about the FICM. I checked it and the voltage was proper both running and not. I believe it was 47v.

Thanks for your advice
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:42 PM
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I would think any diesel shop familiar with the oil cooler and egr cooler issues on the 6.0 would know once that egr cooler goes there is a VERY good chance the head gaskets are also gone and there is coolant in the system now. Just seems they go hand in hand at times. Considering they told you the 'engine' was fine makes it seem they checked out possible other failures or issues that could have/would have been brought on by an EGR cooler/Oil cooler failure. I would wait for some of the techs to chime in though also what did Ford say? did you mention to them what the first shop did? did they mention they should have known to check to ensure there wasn't other damage
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:10 AM
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i doubt a bent rod would randomly show up during the test drive, it would have been evident the minute it happened, why not look into just replacing the rods and possibly pistons? i'm new to the psd but not to engines, depending on the severity and collateral damage there are probably still alot of good parts in the motor
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:03 AM
TMR TMR is offline
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Yes DD, I did tell the dealership the story and they are of the opinion that it probably occured while the first shop had it, however, they think it will be tough for me to prove it. Thats why I asked if there was a procedure to check for coolant in the cylinders before starting the engine.
The dealership tells me that there is somewhere near 40 hours in removine the engine and fixing the issue. They say its more than likely cheaper to short block it. The service manager says there is no official procedure to check first but that every good tech would just check as a matter of common sence.
I just find it hard to believe that if there was a chance of coolant getting in the cylinders and doing major damage, that would be automatic to check first.
I am waiting on a response from the service manager at the dealership. He is checking with the higher ups at Ford to see if there is something they know of. What I'd like is something like a service bulletin that say's "if this happens..you do this first".
Anyway, thank you for your responses, I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

Todd
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:16 AM
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this is the part I was referring to
"but that every good tech would just check as a matter of common sense"
you have to tell the other shop you know that they are the ones that hydrolocked the motor because of them not using common sense and tryin to slap it back together as fast as they could.
you said was a recommended diesel shop so not like just a general mechanic that can try to claim we just dont know diesels
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