03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted. - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Powerstroke.org is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:33 PM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted.


03 6.0 F250 CC 4wd Auto.

Truck turns over, but won't start.

Symptions: Reduced power on way to work, limp mode going home. Towed to small dealership (MISTAKE) 3 weeks later diagnosis is new short block and wiring harness and 12K

Have already completed BISMIC's "Troubleshooting a No-Start Condition Steps 1-26.

FICM Voltage Test on 7 screw unit.

Test 1. Step 4b 48Vdc.
Test 2. Step 5b 47Vdc during initial buzz test, Voltage drops to 40 then back to 48 as cycle completes.
Test 3. Step 6b 46Vdc.

Auto Enginuity Readings During Long Crank. Oil Pressure showing on dash gauge.

ICP V.....................0.81..........FICM_L........ .........10.5
ICP Psi..................535...........FICM_M......... .......48
ICP Desired..........1579.........FICM_V.............. ..11.0
ICP Regulato........84.77........FICM_Sync...........1
RPM......................180...........CPS&CKM Sync.....1
Injector Timing......5.5

Tech at dealership said that there is high and low oil pressure present as checked by test port gauge. Nominal Fuel pressure, it's just not getting a signal to start.
Said that the Camshaft timing Pin is coming out as evidenced by wear on CMP sensor and borescope inspection of timing pin showing wear. CMP Sensor R&R'd

The ICP V look's to me like the next area to look as the range is 0 - 5Vdc.

Any input is greatly appreciated as I am now 5 weeks w/o truck and Momma does not like me driving her baby ;-)

Thanks in Advance.

Eric
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:26 AM
Banned
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 779
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: -1 reviews
535psi icp is border line enough to start, but by looking at icp desired its asking for 1500psi plus and your ipr is maxed out at 84%. you either have a high pressure oil leak or and failing/weak pump. being an 03 my money is on a pump.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 03-02-2011, 07:07 PM
Powerstroke Techie

 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,584
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordmasterdieseltech View Post
535psi icp is border line enough to start, but by looking at icp desired its asking for 1500psi plus and your ipr is maxed out at 84%. you either have a high pressure oil leak or and failing/weak pump. being an 03 my money is on a pump.
I agree.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:11 AM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
After reviewing the paramenters I posted and reading and learning more about AutoEnginuity, I am re-running the test and will post a graph.

I have a second vehicle that I can use to supply additional power to the batteries to keep voltage up to allow cranking for a good 30-40 sec so the graph will show exactly what is happening.

I will also start recording before I start to crank to see info as it builds and end recording after I stop cranking.

Since graps cover 4 items the PIDS will be.

FICM-M, FICM-V, FICM-L, FICM-SYNC.

ICP-V, ICP-PSI, ICP-DESIRED, ICP-DUTY CYCLE

FUEL-PW, CPS CKM-SYNC, RPM, V-BATT

I hope to get to this evening if we don't work to late, if not it will be sunday as tommorrow looks like a 20 hr day.

Eric
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:58 PM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Here are the graphs :

Any additional guidance is appreciated.

Thanking all of you in advance.

Eric
Attached Thumbnails
03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted.-2.jpg   03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted.-3.jpg   03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted.-4.jpg   03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted.-5.jpg   03 No Start, Basics, FICM CK'd Auto E info posted.-f1.jpg  

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:05 PM
Compression Ignition Addict
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Welcome,N.C
Posts: 317
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
I agree.
Im with them !!! How many miles are on your truck?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:49 AM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Errick NDA View Post
Im with them !!! How many miles are on your truck?
107K

Truck spent three weeks at a small dealership with a nice young deisel tech, the only guy in the shop. He always had 5 to 7 trucks in there at one time. Admitted that he went after all the easy stuff first.

Hooked up a supposedly known good FICM
R&R Exhause pressure sensor
Removed turbo to check hpop, said it was good
Oil pressure gauges showed good High and Low pressure
Fuel pressure gauge showed good pressure
loosened / removed glow plugs to see it diesel was injecting, saw mist
removed oil pan to check that crankshaft timing wheel was in place, it was
noticed fine metal particles on upper oil pan and remembered that camshaft sensor showed wear.
Borescope inspection showed scoring on camshaft timing pin.

Diagnosis:
Camshaft timing pin is loose and no sync.
Need small block and wiring harness 12K out of my pocket.

I think he got frustrated.

Eric
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:54 AM
Slacker



 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Posts: 17,117
Thanks: 13
Thanked 48 Times in 37 Posts
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by w4fsa View Post
107K

Truck spent three weeks at a small dealership with a nice young deisel tech, the only guy in the shop. He always had 5 to 7 trucks in there at one time. Admitted that he went after all the easy stuff first.

Hooked up a supposedly known good FICM
R&R Exhause pressure sensor
Removed turbo to check hpop, said it was good
Oil pressure gauges showed good High and Low pressure
Fuel pressure gauge showed good pressure
loosened / removed glow plugs to see it diesel was injecting, saw mist
removed oil pan to check that crankshaft timing wheel was in place, it was
noticed fine metal particles on upper oil pan and remembered that camshaft sensor showed wear.
Borescope inspection showed scoring on camshaft timing pin.

Diagnosis:
Camshaft timing pin is loose and no sync.
Need small block and wiring harness 12K out of my pocket.

I think he got frustrated.

Eric
How did check/verify the HPOP was good? BTW, your FICM is low and requires either fixing or replacement. In addition, your batteries are VERY weak and low battery voltage will cause some very erroneous readings by the PCM, causing some "phantom" issues. I would fix some of these "easy" issues prior to throwing in the towel and deciding that the engine needs replacement.

PS. your graphs are showing that your are getting sync between cam and crankshaft, so I would suspect that your problem lies elsewhere.

Do me a favor and get some good batteries in there, disconnect your ICP and try to fire up your truck. If it idles, you have a bad ICP; if not, I would lean strongly to the HPOP as the culprit.

Last edited by Evil Eye; 03-09-2011 at 08:57 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 03-10-2011, 07:39 AM
Powerstroke.org Rookie
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
OK: Hang in there with me. I am looking at forced overtime for the next 2 weeks including Sunday's.

Batteries are new, charger hooked up and another vehicle will be inline the next time I try to start.

1. Going to remove the FICM and reflow / resolder all points as called out in
DR.QUADS " FIX ur FICM " then try to start.

2. Next, will get down to ICP and re-locate, then remove plug and try to
start. From what I can see in an 03, the turbo has to come off before
you can access the ICP plug so might as well relocate it.

Any additional thoughts welcome.

Eric
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 03-10-2011, 07:46 AM
Mod Newbie


 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN.
Posts: 12,702
Thanks: 6
Thanked 113 Times in 106 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by w4fsa View Post
OK: Hang in there with me. I am looking at forced overtime for the next 2 weeks including Sunday's.

Batteries are new, charger hooked up and another vehicle will be inline the next time I try to start.

1. Going to remove the FICM and reflow / resolder all points as called out in
DR.QUADS " FIX ur FICM " then try to start.

2. Next, will get down to ICP and re-locate, then remove plug and try to
start. From what I can see in an 03, the turbo has to come off before
you can access the ICP plug so might as well relocate it.

Any additional thoughts welcome.

Eric
You can't relocate it and the turbo doesn't have to be removed to replace it. Hard to get to but can be done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

vB.Sponsors