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  #1  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:17 PM
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No power/speed and in the middle of nowhere

Iíve got an F350 2004 (early 2003 engine). Had an IRP valve go out on me almost two years ago (wouldnít start). Couldnít afford the $2200 that the dealership quoted me (they wanted to replace the HPOP as well) so I let it sit for over a year and then decided to do it myself.

Fast forward, replace the IPR, changed the oil, fuel filters etc and the truck started right away and walla I thought everything was fine. But there was one lingering issue and that was that the truck shuttered at high speed. Took it to a dealership and saw the computer reading myself where cylinder number 8 was lagging. Tech told me that everything else looked great but that I needed a new injector (#8).

Well, I couldnít afford the $650 quote and I needed to go out of town for a job and figured that I would wait until the job was over. The truck would still stutter at 80MPH, but it got me to my jobsite 8 hours from home. Iíve been on this job for over a month now (taking way too long) but the problem now is that the truck was fine at 80, then it would only go 70, a few days later 60 and so on and so on.

Also, the fuel efficiency was horrible.

So I finally decided to buy an injector online and do the job myself. Wasnít really that hard. While I was under the hood I checked the dipstick and I noticed lots of sludge and maybe some small metallic shavings on the dipstick. Took the truck back to town today to get some motor oil (injector replacement seemed to go ok) but now the truck would only go about 40 MPH. Drove it about 30 miles and it kept getting slower and slower.
So Iím sorry this is so long but I wanted to paint the full picture for anyone out there who might have a good guess as to what is going on. I doubt that bad oil could be the culprit since the truck only has about 2000 miles on it since the last change.

My best guess is the turbo, but I donít know. The nearest dealership is over an hour away. I have all my tools with me but I think that I will first have to get the truck hooked up to a computer first to see what is up.

Did leaving the truck sit for over a year cause problems that only manifested 2000 miles later?
Or did driving all this time with a bad injector cause other problems?
Or is this something new and unrelated to the prior issues?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:24 PM
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You mentioned that the dealer wanted to replace the HPOP, with your truck getting weaker over time as you stated, I think your HPOP had a small leak to begin with, and as time went on the more you drove it the leak got worse.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilpooh View Post
You mentioned that the dealer wanted to replace the HPOP, with your truck getting weaker over time as you stated, I think your HPOP had a small leak to begin with, and as time went on the more you drove it the leak got worse.

Doubt it, after I want back to the dealer to tell them that I got away with only the IPR, they told me that the reason that they wanted to replace the HPOP was merely because they were going to be taking the top of the engine apart already and they figured that while they were there they would go ahead and replace it. Said that if something went through the oil to cause the IPR to fail that it could have done the same to the HPOP. But after I took it back to the dealer and they hooked it up to the computer again they confirmed that the HPOP was indeed fine. Doesn't mean that it isn't but I doubt it. The truck starts fine and if the HPOP was bad I don't think the truck would start right up. I could be wrong though.
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:39 AM
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You definitely should not see sludge and metal shavings in the engine oil. I recommend an immediate spectrometal analysis of the oil:
Blackstone Labs
Predictive Maintenance Services, Inc.
Oil Analyzers, Inc. - Oil Analysis, Oil Testing Services
I have used all three labs. The prices are reasonable and the results very helpful. Each lab also will provide on the phone support after your analysis. The oil may not be old and itself not "bad" but you have identified two elements that should not be in the oil which could indicate a problem inside your engine...not necessarily from the oil but evident in the oil. Oil analysis is like getting a blood sample looking for indicators of your health - your blood won't get changed out but the medicine to treat your ailment may be identified from what the doctor finds inside your blood.

Driving with a failed/failing injector causes a contribution imbalance (meaning the other injectors are fired harder to make up for the weak injector...those injectors may eventually fail too as a result). While injector installation isn't hard, there are a few spots where a mistake may result in high-pressure leaking which would produce the faults you describe as well (small o-rings and copper crush washers).

The stuttering you describe also sounds like it could be a FICM issue (which may also manifest as injector issues). If your batteries were not swapped out after sitting for such a long time, they may have low charge capacity (not voltage). Get the batteries load tested. Also check the voltage on the FICM. It should be 48 volts.

I hope these ideas help. Happy Thanksgiving!

Jonathan
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:00 AM
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply, I guess I will save some oil after I change it out and see what it tells me. I did replace both batteries three months ago (wish that was the problem). I will try to find a shop nearby that has AE scan tool (or better) and see what it shows as well.

I am concerned about driving it now though as I could make things worse.
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:55 PM
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I wouldn't drive it. The engine is telling you it has problems and continued operation will inevitably lead to further damage.

The poor fuel economy happens with a bad/failing injector. Get a code reader and find out the codes your engine is throwing. With the problems you're describing I suspect more than one injector and the FICM will show up. The FICM could be bad and giving a false report on the injectors perhaps but you have a historic injector issue. Swamps Diesel has a rebuild program (Swamp's Webstore - Custom Electronics) for $570 which is better than the $700+ from Ford. You can check the voltage on the FICM with a multimeter - you don't need an AE or other code reader. There are quite a few threads on FICM voltage checking but here is the Swamps' site how-to:
Fuel Press

In re-reading this I also wonder about your turbo after such a long period of no usage. Have you been watching the boost gauge?

The stock gauges are really poor quality too. You should get an OBDII tool (like the AE if you can stand having a laptop connected full time or an Edge Insight or equivalent otherwise) to monitor:
Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT)
Engine Oil Temperature (EOT)
Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT)
The stock boost gauge is fine but the stock coolant and transmission temperature gauges are not accurate enough and there is NO oil temperature just a pressure gauge.
You also need a Fuel Pressure (FP) gauge...not available through the OBDII tools without a sending unit installation.
A gauge for Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) is helpful but requires the installation of a thermocouple to read this value - easy enough install and the OBDII tools may read this input like the FP sending unit.

You should get a coolant filter too and change out the coolant with Extended Life Coolant (ELC) rated EC-1 or better. Both of these modifications are something that International (Navistar) did for their VT365 engine which is almost exactly the same as the Ford 6.0L which International also built.

I know that with repairs looming it hurts to hear that you need to make additional purchases but the gauges, coolant filter, and EC-1 coolant will prevent most future problems.

The fuel pressure gauge especially in your case is relevant as running out of fuel often contributes to fuel injector failure as does a FICM with low voltage which often follows from old worn out batteries.

The 6.0L is a hard-working engine and very respectable but without these modifications they just aren't forgiving if the previously mentioned symptoms manifest themselves.

In recap:
1. Read codes from engine using an OBDII tool (AE is a great tool) and address the faults reported...FICM replacement from Swamp's Diesel Performance if necessary and new injectors (not rebuilds from the least expensive site you can find). Use reputable vendors or a trusted Ford dealer for assured quality parts.
2. Order gauges (like Insight or equivalent...not to tune though...OR analog gauges for EOT/ECT/TFT/FP/EGT monitoring)
3. Install coolant filter (www.DieselSite.com has a great one with all parts and easy instructions) http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=324
4. Flush and exchange your coolant with EC-1 quality ELC

I suspect you are looking at some expenses but this is still less expensive than an engine rebuild. With these modifications and repairs you can have more confidence in the continued operation of your Ford 6.0L PSD.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Jonathan
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:54 PM
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OK, wow, that is a lot. I am going to try to drive it 12 miles into town tomorrow to see if I can get someone to hook up to a reader and see what kind of things show up.

But I did the FCIM voltage test and it passes. 48.6 V while running and 48v while the acc switch is on. SO I guess that is some good news. I'll try to post and update sometime tomorrow.

thanks for your help!
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:15 PM
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Took the truck to a ford dealership today, his computer reading showed that the turbo was putting out 2 psi where it is supposed to put out 15. Tried swapping out the actuator and disconnecting the catalytic converter, with no success. That lead to the only possible solution (that we could come up with) stuck fins on the turbo. Every other test and reading passed.
So now I need to decide if I want to rebuild the turbo, replace with a used stock turbo, a rebuilt stock turbo, a new stock turbo, or a new aftermarket turbo.
If I could find an aftermarket turbo that would increase power but more importantly fuel efficiency, then I might be inclined to buy an aftermarket unit.
The truck is drivable, just no power boost at all.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:27 PM
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I meant to say vanes not fins, got my fish anatomy confused
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:46 PM
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As Howell_JD said, setting for extended periods of time is rough on turbos. The unison ring and vanes rust up pretty quick and start sticking. This is probably your issue. There's a lot of good info out there on tearing down the turbo and cleaning it. You'll save some big $$ if that fixes your problem.

Diesel Technician Society

Good Luck!!
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