Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

6.0 long crank

17K views 90 replies 16 participants last post by  Rollincole 
#1 ·
I started talking about this problem in a different thread, and I'll post a link to it. The problem I'm having is that my truck takes a while to start especially when cold in the morning. When I turn the key and she cranks it sounds normal except it takes between 5-10 seconds of cranking to get started. When she does start she immediately gets to idle and does not stumble up to idle. I was starting to think it might be my ficm going but from the research I've been doing it seems to be the beginning of the dummy plugs failing. (not enough to cause the no start while hot problem) So I've ordered them and will hopefully have them in by this weekend. I will post updates here on what happens and any input on what you think may be wrong is highly appreciated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#3 ·
#5 ·
How have you verified your FICM health? Have you tested it manually with a volt meter?
 
  • Like
Reactions: john galt
#7 ·
I was checking the voltage with the live wire ts, I haven't checked it manually with the volt meter, I'll look up how to do that but I'm assuming you have to take off the little plate on top.
EDIT: While we're on this voltage topic my battery voltage doesn't exceed 13.75 volts and usually stays in the low 13s, is that normal?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#8 ·
IMO... a voltage test with a volt meter will truly give you the info you need, and yes, you will have to to remove the cover plate to test the FICM with a volt meter, but it's not hard to do.
 
#9 ·
Here ya go, this should help you...
 
  • Like
Reactions: john galt
#13 ·
read up on doing a leak test as well.
before you start throwing parts at the thing which will break you real fast :nod:
if you have the cash you could get in and do the stc,(snap to connect fitting on the hpop) dummys and stand pipes simply for peace of mind down the road on your new truck but your best bet is find a shop in your area :thumb: who can help diagnose it.
@LoxDiesel or @darkpassenger should be able to get you help nearby. I don't know florida but LoxDiesel has a shop that may be close enough to you to do the trick :thumb:
other questions i have does your voltage sit kinda low for the first two minutes after starting then come up?
did cycling the key to on and leaving it for a minute twice help?
have you changed your fuel filters with racor primeguard or ford since you got the truck? serious long shot but a good idea regardless. also stay far away from napa and autozone on filters :eek:
can you check icp and ipr reading when cranking and after start?
can yohu find out the rpms you are cranking from the starter?
all that can really help someone smarter than me get you figured out :D
 
#15 ·
read up on doing a leak test as well.

before you start throwing parts at the thing which will break you real fast :nod:

if you have the cash you could get in and do the stc,(snap to connect fitting on the hpop) dummys and stand pipes simply for peace of mind down the road on your new truck but your best bet is find a shop in your area :thumb: who can help diagnose it.
@LoxDiesel or @darkpassenger should be able to get you help nearby. I don't know florida but LoxDiesel has a shop that may be close enough to you to do the trick :thumb:

other questions i have does your voltage sit kinda low for the first two minutes after starting then come up?

did cycling the key to on and leaving it for a minute twice help?

have you changed your fuel filters with racor primeguard or ford since you got the truck? serious long shot but a good idea regardless. also stay far away from napa and autozone on filters :eek:

can you check icp and ipr reading when cranking and after start?

can yohu find out the rpms you are cranking from the starter?

all that can really help someone smarter than me get you figured out :D


I live in the Florida keys, so I live pretty far from any well known 6.0 mechanics but there is someone in town that is supposed to be pretty good with this engine, I'm probably going to take it to him to diagnose it. The voltage stays at about 47v consistently. I believe I can check the icp and ipr but I'm not sure what they're supposed to read. (I'll post them here when I start it back up) And I'm not sure how to check how many rpm my starter is putting out, maybe if I put up the rpm gauge on the live wire?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#14 ·
this might help :thumb:

Loxahatchee Diesel & Equipment, LLC Royal Palm Beach, FL, 33411 - YP.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: NZACEK
#17 ·
I'm assuming the 84 is % on your IPR value. Which is high for starting up the truck. Your issue seems strange to me because a HPO leak is usually when engine is hot and oil has thinned down.
Your FICM isn't the issue at 47 volts because normal is 48 volts.
I'd think if your glow plugs were a issue you would be throwing codes. Have you checked truck for codes yet? lol

My gut feeling here right now is possibly a goofy ICP sensor.

But need more data on your IPR values along with your ICP #'s

Just to give you a idea on how the IPR works it's a Injector Pressure Regulator. The HPOP pumps oil for the injectors in excess or more oil then the engine needs. The IPR opens and closes as neccesary to keep the appropriate pressure for the injectors for the different engine conditions. The IPR vents off oil pressure back into the crankcase.
The higher % shown for the IPR the more it's closing. So a high % value is it closing so the pressure increases. Therefore if you see the IPR at high percentages it's trying to increase the injector pressure by closing.
So if there is a leak at the standpipes or D plugs it's going to have higher % values.
 
  • Like
Reactions: john galt
#18 ·
I'm assuming the 84 is % on your IPR value. Which is high for starting up the truck. Your issue seems strange to me because a HPO leak is usually when engine is hot and oil has thinned down.

Your FICM isn't the issue at 47 volts because normal is 48 volts.

I'd think if your glow plugs were a issue you would be throwing codes. Have you checked truck for codes yet? lol



My gut feeling here right now is possibly a goofy ICP sensor.



But need more data on your IPR values along with your ICP #'s



Just to give you a idea on how the IPR works it's a Injector Pressure Regulator. The HPOP pumps oil for the injectors in excess or more oil then the engine needs. The IPR opens and closes as neccesary to keep the appropriate pressure for the injectors for the different engine conditions. The IPR vents off oil pressure back into the crankcase.

The higher % shown for the IPR the more it's closing. So a high % value is it closing so the pressure increases. Therefore if you see the IPR at high percentages it's trying to increase the injector pressure by closing.

So if there is a leak at the standpipes or D plugs it's going to have higher % values.


I have checked the truck for codes many times and come up empty handed, I thought the same thing about HPO leaks but right now I'm thinking that the o rings on the dummy plugs are just starting to wear maybe? Causing the long cranking. And I'm waiting for my BT OBD plug to come in so I can view more gauges and get more detailed info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
Don't be a puss, figure it out yourself.:poke

You can do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: junior125 and kaya
#27 · (Edited)
Once it starts, immediately shut it down. Wait a few minutes. Does it fire right back up?
84% is quite possibly an indicator of an hpo leak. I have seen leaks on 05+ cause long crank cold but not the typical long crank/no start hot.
My theory is that when the truck is shut off hot, the leak bleeds out the oil in the hpo system overnight.
The 05 pump can overcome some decent size leaks, even when hot. But nothing it can do for a pocket in the system.
05+ leaks aren't always as black and white as the typical symptoms. They can be illusive. 2 big indicators of a leak are a) 84% ipr duty cycle, and b) the symptom can be recreated under the exact same conditions every time.
This is just a hunch, of course, from the very limited amount of data you've provided. You'd want to gather more info before performing a leak test.
In the morning, before starting, pull the oil filter. The filter should be saturated in oil, and there should be oil in the housing before it drains down. If its bone dry in there, its probably bleeding down in the housing. Push down the drain valve in the housing and have someone crank it. If oil begins to fill the housing immediately, your supply is likely ok.
With an 84% ipr duty cycle, you almost don't even need to see icp readings. You already know its low. One thing you'd wanna see tho is icp voltage Koeo. If its between .2-.24v, and this problem occurs every morning, I'd dive into a leak test.
If its more of an intermittent issue, you're probably dealing with a sensor, actuator, or circuit issue.
Nothing is absolute tho of course
 
#28 ·
I'm pretty sure it's a HPO leak somewhere, I pulled the oil filter this morning and it had oil dripping off of it so the oil can't be draining from there. My cheap android tablet comes in the mail Saturday so I can get the torque app going. When I start it I'll post up if it starts quickly right after it's been run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#32 ·
Don't let it warm up lol
Now you'll have to try this again after letting it sit overnight.
As soon as it starts, immediately shut it off. Wait a few minutes and see if it fires right up
 
#34 ·
It's a 2005 model year.
 
#39 ·
are you letting your glow plugs run for any time before cranking it?
 
#42 ·
I was the one who mentioned to the OP it could be o-rings. I had the same issue or very close and it even passed a pressure test from the 6.0 mechanic and I use a very very well respected and well known business. Kind of stumped him and he said since the standpipes and dummy plugs as well as Orings were original on my 06 then lets replace them anyway since it should be done after all the other work done.
That was when he found a slightly crumpled or maybe degraded o-ring...but it was not completely failed. Like I said he surmised that after the truck sat overnight and got cold the o-ring must be leaking just enough to make it crank a bit longer than normal until started. He thought if it was a very small leak then when it warmed up and the oring was soaked in oil it would no longer leak. because it never did it hot. But he said that was his best guess only. But it fixed the problem.
I think my IPR also climbed to 84% which made him strongly assume a leak.
But I do not want the OP to polarize on this issue but if the standpipes and dummy plugs O-rings are original..AND..nothing else seems to nail it down...then replacing them and knowing they are new is not going to hurt. I mean everyone who does preventive work on this years always includes these as part of preventive repairs....so it is a valid consideration.
Now..if it was just say start throwing a HPOP or various parts at it then I would be cautious. I do not like throwing parts at a problem either. Rather mine was very similar and nothing indicated directly the orings were it..we had to just go with the symptoms and the fact they were still original.....and that again...it is a common preventive repair so lets do it.
 
#45 ·
I was the one who mentioned to the OP it could be o-rings. I had the same issue or very close and it even passed a pressure test from the 6.0 mechanic and I use a very very well respected and well known business. Kind of stumped him and he said since the standpipes and dummy plugs as well as Orings were original on my 06 then lets replace them anyway since it should be done after all the other work done.

That was when he found a slightly crumpled or maybe degraded o-ring...but it was not completely failed. Like I said he surmised that after the truck sat overnight and got cold the o-ring must be leaking just enough to make it crank a bit longer than normal until started. He thought if it was a very small leak then when it warmed up and the oring was soaked in oil it would no longer leak. because it never did it hot. But he said that was his best guess only. But it fixed the problem.

I think my IPR also climbed to 84% which made him strongly assume a leak.

But I do not want the OP to polarize on this issue but if the standpipes and dummy plugs O-rings are original..AND..nothing else seems to nail it down...then replacing them and knowing they are new is not going to hurt. I mean everyone who does preventive work on this years always includes these as part of preventive repairs....so it is a valid consideration.

Now..if it was just say start throwing a HPOP or various parts at it then I would be cautious. I do not like throwing parts at a problem either. Rather mine was very similar and nothing indicated directly the orings were it..we had to just go with the symptoms and the fact they were still original.....and that again...it is a common preventive repair so lets do it.


Yes that's what I was thinking, I've got the parts ordered and I figure if it doesn't fix it then there's one less thing to fail.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top