2006 F350 6.0 (Manual transmission) 125000 miles all original replaced FICM about 2 years ago. Driving to work one morning truck stalled going down the road, now cranks but no start. Using the autozone "scangauge X" I have the following...
Key on engine off...
SYC = 0
FMP = 47.0
IPR = 14.8
ICP = 0
ICV =0.23
While cranking with ICP sensor disconnected (still no start)...
SYC = 1
FMP = 47.5
IPR = 53.2
ICP = 1118
ICV = 0
I have done the following...
1. Replace STC fitting.
2. New IPR (old one looked OK but figured while I was in go ahead and change).
3. Replace passengers side dummy plug.
Dummy plug seal looked worn but cannot believe it wont pump up any pressure (I repeat 0 ICP). Did not have time to get to drivers side plug yet, but really suspect something else. Has anybody seen 0 ICP from a dummy plug? Any advice? please help.
no. a dummy plug will not yield 0 icp. only 3 things really will. a sheared hpop gear. base oil supply, or ipr with screen debris jammed in it. clearly not the latter. most likely a base issue. remove the oil filter. have someone crank the engine, or jump the starter yourself (make sure you're in neutral!) while pressing down on the drain valve in the oil filter housing using a 12" extension. if oil does not fill the housing while cranking, you have a base issue. if so, remove the oil pressure relief valve at the bottom of the front cover. should be a 10mm hex/allen. if the valves springs right out with force, it was jammed. reinstall and recheck for base oil.
I don't believe its base oil pressure. Though I didn't try your procedure above (no helper), the dash gauge registers when cranking for 20+ seconds. New Oil filter is saturated after cranking. HPOP gear seems to be fine when I had it out for the STC replace this morning.
you can jump the starter yourself underhood. the solenoid wire is a single pin round connector at right rear of engine bay. disconnect it and pull the male end over to the b+ terminal stud at passenger battery. press the pin against the stud. this way you don't need a helper to check for base oil.
if you have adequate base, this is an odd scenario. not a whole lot will cause a 0 icp reading.
how did the original ipr screen look when you removed it? was the oil cooler recently replaced?
Thanks Kaya. This is the first time this truck has been apart. Oil cooler has never been replaced. Aside from the FICM never had any problems with this truck. IPR screen looked fine no damage or debris on screen. Maybe the HPOP itself? I have read its unlikely. Is there any way to test the actual pump before spending $500+ ? Will try base pressure test tonight.
One thing that you might consider is that the IPR duty cycle is what the PCM is commanding, but not necessarily what the IPR is doing. That means that - if your IPR wiring/connections were damaged - you would see these same readings but the IPR would not be responding.
I would put an oscilloscope on the IPR harness connector and verify that it is being driven properly before swapping the HPOP. You will see a square wave whose duty cycle changes with IPR%.
even an ipr that is disconnected will still make some icp. yes, the pump on an 05+ is unlikely. can count on one hand how many i've faulted. that's not to say it isn't possible. you found the 0 reading prior to replacing anything, yes? if so, if you have base oil, ipr is good, though not likely, the pump would be the next suspect really. at that point though, i would be leak checking just to be sure. though i don't think i've ever found a leak big enough to give a 0 reading, who knows.
His disconnected ICP sensor shows the expected default/fake ICP. That tells me that the PCM is okay. If the ICP sensor were the only problem and the HPOP system were good, disconnecting would be enough to start.
What I am saying is that - if the IPR wiring were bad and the IPR was staying open regardless of the commanded IPR% - the valve would be continually dumping to the pan and that would be one possible "massive leak."
For me, checking the IPR signal would be easier than an air test. For others, maybe not. It doesn't really matter. One or the other is the next step.
this tool works great for leak testing. can be found much cheaper if you search 6 0L 7 3L Ford Powerstroke High Pressure Oil System IPR Air Test Tool Set | eBay
i usually install it, shut the valve, then crank the engine. if icp is built, there is an ipr issue. if none, open valve, apply air pressure, with valve covers off, and listen for a leak. with a 0 icp reading, the leak would be quite massive and obvious
there's a port on the fitting that's supposed to feed the branch tube, then oil manifolds. pull the hpop cover off. if you see that port on top of the fitting, it's upside down
what i mean is no wiring fault in the ipr circuit will yield 0icp. only fault ipr relataed to yield a 0 reading would be if debris shot the screen into the valve. that's the only time you'll see an ipr concern cause 0. if the screen jams it open, it's not the same thing as a stuck open ipr (or shorted to ground).
base oil. faulty hpop. screen jammed ipr. that's pretty much it for this perticular symptom.
oh, and upside down stc :toofless:
99.999999986% sure I put the STC in correctly. I didn't think it would go in upside down because there is a shoulder milled on the top of it that slides under the lip on the back of the case.
I could not locate an oscilloscope yesterday.
If I understand above posts correctly regardless of faulty wiring and the IPR dumping I should still see 100 psi or so?
Guess I am going after the pump? Will check the STC of course when cover is off.
Something else maybe I should mention... while pulling apart for STC I dropped the oil for an oil change. Do I need to prime the HPO system or something? The oil level is topped off by the way
oh the stc will go in upside down. i know because i did it myself! many moons ago. but yes, if the shoulder is up, you have it in right.
how long have you been cranking? it takes a loooong time to build icp sometimes after having the system is open.
i usually remove the icp sensor and crank from underhood until oil comes out the icp port. that bleeds it fairly quickly...as long as you can build icp
You hit the nail on the head Kaya! THANK YOU! Evidently I was not cranking long enough to build the pressure. Did the bleed out procedure at the sensor as you mentioned, then kept cranking 1psi, 16psi, 187psi, 498psi, IGNITION!!!!!!
Still not quite right but have ICP!!! 2 problems now...
Problem 1. If I let it sit for a few minutes it takes a while to build the ICP back up but it does start eventually. I am guessing maybe the other dummy plug (still have not replaced the drivers side), or maybe still air in the system?
Problem 2: Have a bad exhaust leak. Sounds like the drivers side where meeting the turbo (of course the one that is hard to see). Any tips on getting those flanges aligned or seated? It looked like it lined up pretty good but I obviously missed it.
Any other items I should be looking for on the scan gauge?
Greatly appreciate the advice from Kaya and DJMaguire!
right on. yea i've seen guys tearing the system back apart only to find they just needed to keep cranking. you probably just have air in the system now. gotta drive it. long crank should go away.
for the flange, sometimes, if it aint seated, you can back the clamp off a few turns, take a long extension and give the feed pipe side a good whack and it'll seat. then tighten it up further. or, you may have to loosen the clamp back off, loosen the bolts down at one of the flanges that meet the manifold, and seat it. may have to loosen both sides, but usually one side gives you enough movement. i usually spray lube on the turbo flange and feed pipe flange prior to installing. a little lube goes a long way sometimes. helps the ridges slip together nicely. i leave the turbo mounting bolts loose, get the flange seated and tightened, then tighten the mounting bolts. usually have no issues with that method
Hello all.
I have the same exact scenario as presented in this thread, on my '05 6.0. Changed head gaskets, went back with ARP studs, replaced oil cooler and IPR.
After I put it all back together, showing 0 psi on IPC while cranking. I performed the air bleeding procedure described by Kaya above, wit ICP removed and disconnected, but no oil came out after several long cranks. Had to let the starter cool down between cranks.
What's next?
Info below from autoenginuity software. Thanks in advance for any help.
Truck has been down for months, but it started and ran the day I began pulling it apart. Had oil in coolant, and vice versa. Started burning coolant out the tail pipe so I parked it and ordered all the parts to fix everything at once.
If there isn't any oil coming out, you still have a lot of air in the system, or no base oil psi. Pull filter and crank to see if housing fills. If so, pull ICP and crank/bleed it some more
You pretty much just poured 2-3 quarts back into the oil pan, but it probably helped prime the LPOP.
Pulling the relay keeps the injectors from dry firing or firing with barely enough HPO to fire them. It also takes that much strain off of the electrical system to help spin it better and longer.
Thanks G8tor. So, lesson learned, put oil into the oil cooler reservoir when replacing it. Now, big question, do I keep cranking it or is there any other way to prime the cooler reservoir and HPOP?
There are only two ways to fill it that I know of. Pull it back apart, put a quart of oil in it and put it back together or keep cranking. FWIW, if you are getting oil in the housing, the reservoir is probably already full. Filling it beforehand just saves some extra cranking.
I cranked it, relay out this time, using starter wire directly on battery.
3 times for 60s with 5 minutes break between cranks. Still no oil at the ICP sensor hole. I'll tear the top end back down if necessary, just need to know what I'm looking for.
After my first round of 0 psi while cranking, I pulled the turbo to get to the IPR. The screen was rechecked and found to be clean. I also poured oil down into the HPOP via the turbo drain into HPOP cover.
Use a large syringe (or similar) and force oil into the oil rail from the ICP hole. You'll probably have to let a little air out all along to get it as full as possible. Then see what happens when you turn it over a little. When I did my studs, I filled the reservoir and both rails prior to cranking it. Mine fired with about 20-30 seconds of total cranking time (~10 second cranks). Might have been less if I'd had the FICM relay in, but I wanted to see the ICP pressure come up first.
Ok, hooked up a hand actuated oil pump (new) setting in a gallon of fresh oil and threaded it into the ICP hole. Pumped about 1.5 quarts into it, and bled out quite a bit of air. Passenger side is full now. The only way to get to the driver side oil rail is pulling the valve cover, right?
While cranking, still 0 PSI on ICP, but I also noticed my FICM logic was dropping to 11v. Is that normal while cranking?
FICM main power stayed around 49v - KOEO and while cranking.
Batteries were around 12.06v so I'm charging them before cranking any more.
Thanks guys.
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